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Would you go to a church where the preacher has been accused of sexual misconduct?

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Are you kidding?

In today's world of TV, R-rated movies, and simple innuendo? I'd like to know where there is a child who does NOT have 'sexual knowledge,' albeit skewed and misunderstood, as this child's was.

....and I'm very sorry, but I'm not giving you any more information about this. It's not me being evasive. It's me regretting having brought it up in the first place.
I'm sorry I've caused you to feel this way. I didn't mean to.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Okay, I did what research I could and it sounds like we are talking past each other.

1) I mean that when children come forward without any prior questions. Of course when a police officer asks a child if x happened, the child might feel pressured to say yes; but this is not what I'm talking about.

2) If a three year old came to her mother after school one day and described being sexually abused in a way she clearly had no idea what it was, that seems pretty strong evidence for it being the truth. This is what I'm taking about.

I see. Well, yeah....but then I did say we should take things a child says seriously.

I understand, however, that such things generally are more involved than this; usually we aren't talking about three year olds who don't have a clue, are we?
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
usually we aren't talking about three year olds who don't have a clue, are we?
It is generally what I mean when I'm talking about it, so I suppose I should have explained myself better.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
What sort of "sexual misconduct"? Consensual affairs? Sexual assault? Something else?

According to what I read, he had consenting affairs but he was a pastor and two of the women who came forward said that he gave them alcohol etc to "get them" into bed. So there are no rape allegations, or assault..,and he has repented but there are other pastors in his church who still asked him to step down.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I recently read about a guy who is an ''evangelist'' and pastor of a church, that he has a long history of recent sexual misconduct allegations, some of which he admitted to, but many he claims are lies about him. Would you attend a church where the preacher was being accused by quite a few women, of sexual misconduct? Why or why not?
Sure why not? After all, technically Yahweh raped Mary, Muhammad married children and Yeshua dug prostitutes, so it must be the norm in these faiths!
 

roger1440

I do stuff
How about...

Would you continue to let a person baby sit your kids even if you hear from multiple sources that the person is a child molester?
The first thoughts that would come to my mind would probably be why I haven’t heard this before and why isn’t this guy in jail. The Bible does have verses on the topic of rumors and gossip.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Suppose the pastor admitted to doing some of the things he's accused of, and then said he has since repented?

What would he say if he HADN'T repented?
Does repenting make his impulse control better, or merely show remorse for prior actions?

I have no issue with repenting, in and of itself, but someone's claims of repentance doesn't seem to carry much weight to me.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Sure why not? After all, technically Yahweh raped Mary, Muhammad married children and Yeshua dug prostitutes, so it must be the norm in these faiths!
Oh my :eek:

What would he say if he HADN'T repented?
Does repenting make his impulse control better, or merely show remorse for prior actions?

I have no issue with repenting, in and of itself, but someone's claims of repentance doesn't seem to carry much weight to me.

Well, part of being a believer, is that we are mindful of our sins, we repent, meaning...we seek to change behaviors that are not healthy, sinful, etc. In this case, reading about this guy who repented, it would mean that he has stopped the behavior, and has learned the error of his ways. You know? So, going with that, is it appropriate to still go to a church where let's say, this guy still preaches? As @Carlita had posted...we are all sinners, and so if we repent, then shouldn't we be forgiving? I think we should of course, but should there be ''earthly consequences'' for such as losing one's job, etc even if the believer repented? Maybe that is another question.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
What would he say if he HADN'T repented?
Does repenting make his impulse control better, or merely show remorse for prior actions?

I have no issue with repenting, in and of itself, but someone's claims of repentance doesn't seem to carry much weight to me.

Wish I could repence in the eyes of the laws.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I recently read about a guy who is an ''evangelist'' and pastor of a church, that he has a long history of recent sexual misconduct allegations, some of which he admitted to, but many he claims are lies about him. Would you attend a church where the preacher was being accused by quite a few women, of sexual misconduct? Why or why not?
No, absolutely not. It would clearly be expressing that the sexual misconduct (I am assuming this means illegal sexual misconduct. Is that OK?) is not worthy of dismissal from any public facing role.

That being said, the reaction is, of course, dependent on the specifics. So, it would depend entirely on what brand of "sexual misconduct" we are talking about here.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
If I could change 'church' to 'shul'...

If the Rabbi has merely been accused but nothing proven, I would go. Innocent til proven guilty.

If accused and he said he had done some of those things, I would not go. Would make him a hypocrite.
What if he hadn't been convicted due to a mere legal technicality? Would you still treat him as being "innocent" even though clearly guilty (and lucky)?
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
No, he broke the qualifications of being a preacher, deacon, overseer or whatever they're called. He's finished.

1 timothy 3:2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

Qualifications for Deacons
…In the same way, the women must be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in all things. A deacon must be the husband of but one wife, a good manager of his children and of his own household. For those who have served well as deacons acquire for themselves a high standing and great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.…

1 Timothy 3:8
Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued or given to much wine or greedy for money.
This is my favorite response to this topic. Leaders have to be held to a higher standard.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Sure why not? After all, technically Yahweh raped Mary, Muhammad married children and Yeshua dug prostitutes, so it must be the norm in these faiths!
Wait.

What?

According to the story I read, Mary consented. As well, according to the rules of the time, she was old enough to do so.

Hence, no rape.

As well, Jesus (or 'Yeshua') did indeed deal with prostitutes and all manner of sinners. I see no indication, however, that He availed Himself of their services. Indeed, all the stories I've seen involve them repenting of offering those services.

but yeah, Mohamad married children. I'm not as aware of the rules of his time as I should be, I suppose, so I don't know just how socially unacceptable his marriage to a nine year old actually was.

Don't go committing the historian's bias here. While I am aware that rhetorical exaggeration is a tried and true method of getting one's point across, outright misrepresentation is generally not likely to increase credibility.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
According to what I read, he had consenting affairs but he was a pastor and two of the women who came forward said that he gave them alcohol etc to "get them" into bed. So there are no rape allegations, or assault..,and he has repented but there are other pastors in his church who still asked him to step down.
It sounds like what you're saying is that whatever alcohol was involved wasn't enough to interfere with consent; in that case, I'd probably be open to staying. It would depend on the pastor's stance on the issue generally - i.e. if he's hypocritically condemning others for what he's doing himself.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Wait.

What?

According to the story I read, Mary consented. As well, according to the rules of the time, she was old enough to do so.

Hence, no rape.

As well, Jesus (or 'Yeshua') did indeed deal with prostitutes and all manner of sinners. I see no indication, however, that He availed Himself of their services. Indeed, all the stories I've seen involve them repenting of offering those services.

but yeah, Mohamad married children. I'm not as aware of the rules of his time as I should be, I suppose, so I don't know just how socially unacceptable his marriage to a nine year old actually was.

Don't go committing the historian's bias here. While I am aware that rhetorical exaggeration is a tried and true method of getting one's point across, outright misrepresentation is generally not likely to increase credibility.
The Rape of Mary. Legitimate or not? | Marcel Gagné

As for Yeshua . . . no one knows what he was up to
As for Muhammad . . . yeesh
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The difference you propose is age?

It's OK for a child to make an accusation but not an adult? I fail to see why.

Sorry David, I'm not understanding your comment.
Sorry David, I'm not understanding your comment.
Sorry David, I'm not understanding your comment.
Sorry David, I'm not understanding your comment.
Psychologists politicians ministers all work in psychology without defining that term too much. So if he has been busted its because he set it all up. If one goes through life keenly aware that sexual misconduct is a possibility every action will be taken to make sure no inappropriate accusation can take place. It becomes the structure of interactions. How you structuralize those interactions will always place you in situations that are seen by others. So you don't create inappropriate situations at all in the first place. Hell we do this at regular jobs now. It's really not that difficult but it's easy to try and work around that. He clearly has multiple accusers which means he has been sneaky.
 
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