• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Would you die to live forever?

S-word

Well-Known Member
Question:
If there was a process (which you were assured in your own mind would work) in where your current body would be destroyed but in the process you would obtain an almost age-less, disease resistant, and perfect body would you do it?

- This process could be either scientific or mystical
- It would be something you would theoretically be able to know for certain works - perhaps because of many other people who have already done this process. (I make this point because I'm not asking if this is possible or not possible - I'm asking IF it WAS possible would you do it.)
- Your new body would not be completely immortal because you could still die of trauma, but you wouldn't have to worry about most diseases and would never age (in the sense your skin would never lose plasticity or your hair would never go gray, your bones wouldn't loose calcium, etc).

Bonus question: Would a perfect copy of you - all your memories, your DNA, etc - still be YOU?


If I were offered the opportunity to be translated, and by translation, I mean to be changed from one form to another without losing any of the essence of the original, then yes, I would welcome that opportunity with open arms.

There will come the day, when this earth and even this galaxy, will be unable to sustain physical life forms, and so, If this body of corruptible matter could be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, to a body of glorious and incorruptible Light, would I work toward that goal?

You bet your sweet bippy I would.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Question:
If there was a process (which you were assured in your own mind would work) in where your current body would be destroyed but in the process you would obtain an almost age-less, disease resistant, and perfect body would you do it?

- This process could be either scientific or mystical
- It would be something you would theoretically be able to know for certain works - perhaps because of many other people who have already done this process. (I make this point because I'm not asking if this is possible or not possible - I'm asking IF it WAS possible would you do it.)
- Your new body would not be completely immortal because you could still die of trauma, but you wouldn't have to worry about most diseases and would never age (in the sense your skin would never lose plasticity or your hair would never go gray, your bones wouldn't loose calcium, etc).

None of those. When I die, I'll want to stay dead, thank you very much.

Bonus question: Would a perfect copy of you - all your memories, your DNA, etc - still be YOU?
I don't know. If I'm ever cloned, I'll get back to you on that. ;)
 

TerranIV

Infidel
Only if the parts are interchangeable. ;)

I can't even remember "me" at birth, much less retaining the memories I have at present. I would say to this N/A by reason of eventual amnesia.

The question wasn't about what you were when you were born - it is about what you are now. If you had a perfect body - your memories could be preserved as "perfectly" as a digital photograph or video.
 

TerranIV

Infidel
There is a natural order of things. Death is part of that order. Speaking as someone who loved the Highlander series, I always felt sorry for Duncan. The idea of never aging, never dying, while watching all those you care for wither and die is torturous. A person is not meant to outlive their children and grandchildren and so on. Not to mention, but even if those you cared most for were to be as ageless and undying as you, you would eventually get bored with life I would think. Eventually you would have done it all, seen it all, learned it all...and then what?

No, I don't think I could choose to live forever.

What if not dying became a new phase of human life? What if many people chose to live on in a robot body or bio-engineered body which would allow them to partake in a different existence such as living under water or in outer space? I see this as a possibility in the next century or so and I was wondering how many people have thought about this and if people are ready to accept it.

Of course you don't really need to be ready right now. I think a lot of innovations such as a complete catalog of replacement organs, bones, limbs etc in biological as well as robotic forms will pave the way to the ultimate re-making of our bodies. This will be a constant evolution of what it means to be human but will not take away from the earliest stages just like how being an adult doesn't mean there are no longer any children in the world.

Perhaps I should ask this question again in 30 years. :)
 

TerranIV

Infidel
I might.

The question made me think of something, though. A friend of mine has a sister in her eighties; her children are older than my friend. She has been in the hospital for some time, and recently she told my friend that she wanted him to talk to her children on her behalf. "They won't leave me alone," she complained. "I just want to die, and they won't let me. I'm tired. You have to tell them to let me die."

We might hope not to reach that point in our eighties, but I feel pretty certain that -- given the time -- we would all reach it eventually.

I'm guessing if your friend's sister had access to a youthful body with full mobility and no pain of disease and decay she would not wish to die. Of course many people in there 20's with no serious physical problems kill themselves every day, I would guess your friend's sister would have more hope in the future if she didn't see only pain and death. Of course this would always be up to her if she didn't want to live a "second life" in a perfected body. I'm sure if the day ever comes when we do have this choice there will be many who choose to just die naturally - just like many women decide to forgo an epidural in pregnancy because of personal beliefs or to avoid possible side effects.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The question wasn't about what you were when you were born - it is about what you are now. If you had a perfect body - your memories could be preserved as "perfectly" as a digital photograph or video.

In that case, I don't know. Not sure If I would really want my present memories intact forever. Even with a perfect body.
 

TerranIV

Infidel
If I was to live for a very long time, but my family could not, then that wouldn't be nice. I'd not like to outlive my children and their children. If everybody could live forever, a) the world population would destroy the Earth and b) there'd be no real point of having children.


I disagree. The universe is a large place. If we had bodies which could allow us to live comfortably under the oceans, in outer space, or on another planet then this would be a viable option. I would imagine if many people had robotic bodies they would be able to colonize the moon or mars relatively quickly. Perhaps "immortals" would want to set up their own cultures on a planet of their own and help those who are still on earth by creating clean energy under the ocean, on another world, or in outer space.

I'm sure this wouldn't happen for many decades of course, but if we can manage to avoid completely destroying ourselves in the next century or so this might be possible. I think advances in robotics and biology would be used for our own benefit. Rather than simply creating a race of super beings or super robots we would be able to augment ourselves just like we do every day when we augment our skin with clothing or our eyes with glasses or our feet and legs with automobiles.
 

TerranIV

Infidel
I would love to live forever. I really have no desire to ever die. Why would I?! Sure, the earth is a ******, ****** place and the people suck but think of how interesting and amazingly cool it would be to live for hundreds, thousands, millions of years and see how this place changes and what all goes down. I'm all for it, man!

I think I would also like to live forever in some way. I think we all change who we are as we grow up - I'm not the same person today as I was yesterday - and so to would it be if I was to live forever. Perhaps you wouldn't be able to say the being I would be in a few hundred years is the same being as I am today - but my memories and influence would live on and that being would be an evolution of me and would have such a greater perspective on things if I had access to hundreds of years of knowledge and memories.

Perhaps people with such a perspective would be able to make more wise decisions about the future and not place our existence in as much peril as it seems we normal humans do with our nuclear bombs and our global warming.
 

TerranIV

Infidel
Are you going to be able to escape the earth before it burns up? I wouldn't care to be around for that. I don't think I'd want to live forever, anyway. But I could imagine wanting to live a very long time. 200 years ... 500 ... 1000 ... Think of all you could learn and experience. That's why I think I might take the deal. The way the OP is phrased, you'd still have the option of jumping off a cliff when you were done; you wouldn't be forced to keep going after you'd lost the will to go on.

Exactly. You wouldn't ever really be "immortal" because you could be hit by a car or fall off a cliff or many other things but we would just be free of being killed by old age and decay. You may also be able to go into hibernation for years and effectively travel into the future.

Perhaps you could decide to go into stasis for 25 years and then enjoy all the innovations of the future and learn about the time you were "asleep" and then when you got bored or depressed you could "sleep" for another 25 years. You could even decide to go to "sleep" for micro bursts of a day or an hour and live in "hyper time" and watch the world move forward in fast forward.

The point is you wouldn't have to live your life with the restrictions we have because of our bodies. Some people may be lazy and just sit around all day and sleep if they had immortality, but others would work harder knowing they wouldn't loose their life's work at the end of their time. Laws would have to be re-written so the wealth didn't stay in the hands of a few immortals, but there would be so much other resources opened up to people who didn't have to worry about many of the frailties we all have to deal with.

People could always fling themselves into the sun as an option if you wanted to end it all and return to the giver of all life. :)
 

TerranIV

Infidel
I believe I have already stated it a couple of times in other threads, I believe the highest gift the universe has given us, is the gift of mortality.
death is a natural part of life, so natural that without death, life as we know it would not be possible.

Nothing about us becoming the dominant species on this planet has anything to do with our "natural" skills. It is the combined knowledge and learning abilities of the human race which govern our lives today. We wear clothes, live in houses, drive cars, watch tv, use computers - none of this is "natural" in your definition of the word. Even reading and writing is so fundamentally different from the way other species on this planet operate it doesn't even come close to "natural" - and look how widespread it is!

Nothing is more natural than evolution when it comes to the human species. In the history of this planet those beings in the future will look at the human species as a link between the older "natural" world and a new paradigm of existence - when life moved beyond the limits of biology and evolution into other worlds and sentient innovations.
 
Last edited:

Heneni

Miss Independent
Exactly. You wouldn't ever really be "immortal" because you could be hit by a car or fall off a cliff or many other things but we would just be free of being killed by old age and decay. You may also be able to go into hibernation for years and effectively travel into the future.

Perhaps you could decide to go into stasis for 25 years and then enjoy all the innovations of the future and learn about the time you were "asleep" and then when you got bored or depressed you could "sleep" for another 25 years. You could even decide to go to "sleep" for micro bursts of a day or an hour and live in "hyper time" and watch the world move forward in fast forward.

The point is you wouldn't have to live your life with the restrictions we have because of our bodies. Some people may be lazy and just sit around all day and sleep if they had immortality, but others would work harder knowing they wouldn't loose their life's work at the end of their time. Laws would have to be re-written so the wealth didn't stay in the hands of a few immortals, but there would be so much other resources opened up to people who didn't have to worry about many of the frailties we all have to deal with.

People could always fling themselves into the sun as an option if you wanted to end it all and return to the giver of all life. :)

Perhaps they will find a way, do download all memories, and basically 'who you are' on a computer chip on a mainfraim somewhere. You would always have a kind of back up. If your body is destroyed, you are still in the mainframe. When another body is created, be it robotic or whatever, you can just be downloaded again into a kind of chip in the body.

- Thought inspired by 'wandered off'

Heneni
 

TerranIV

Infidel
depends would i be able to copy me more then one's? so instead of just making 1 me i could make 100 me's?

Unfortunately the act of obtaining the information needed to create the "new you" the current you would be destroyed. Kind of like the Heisenberg uncertainty principle - the machine which will make the new you can't know EVERYTHING about you without destroying you first.

I don't know if this would really be necessary if this ever really becomes an option because in order to figure this out scientists would have to be destroying a lot of mice in getting it down. :) I would guess in reality people would "back up" their minds and then in the event of their death the latest "back up" would be loaded into a robot body or bio-logically grown body and then you would be sent on your way. In this scenario it would be possible for someone to make copies of themselves based on the backup scan.

I remember the Calvin and Hobbes comic where Calvin created duplicates of himself and then tried to get them to do all the boring things he didn't want to do while he had fun. I don't know that many people would like to have another copy of themselves around but I'm also sure there would be some weirdos and ego-centric people who would love the idea (probably the same people who call their kids "Jr"). :)

I would guess the expense of making a copy of yourself would (initially at least) make it something most people wouldn't see the value in. Rich people might want to do it but if you double yourself then you would essentially divide your wealth in half between the two of you so you would have to be willing to share!
 

TerranIV

Infidel
I think this is a great thread, it made me think!

I agree with the arguments given by those who'd rather follow the natural order of life (and die). Imagine raising children. I'm sure it's interesting when it's your children, your grandchildren, and even if you're lucky, you're great-grandchildren, but after that, would you still care about it in the same way?

Or, let's say you chose to study medicine the first time round, and you become a great doctor. Would you want to be a doctor for 10000 years? Maybe then you'd learn about plumbing, or whatever, but in the end, a job is a job: it's solving problems, and it's interaction with others. You spend your time perfecting your problem solving skills, your people skills, but you'd never reach perfection (who can be perfect?). I don't know if that's a good thing (since there would always be something to improve), or really frustrating.

Of course there is the question of afterlife. If you were always on earth, you'd be missing out on what comes after earth (the worlds of God?).

I'm glad you like this thread, Varion, and I appreciate hearing your thoughts about it!

I would imagine if you believed in an afterlife which would be much better than this life a long mortal existence wouldn't be as attractive comparatively - although it just transfers the problem from a life you can choose to control how you live to an everlasting life which you may not have as much control where you live and what you do (depending on how much control you think the gods or devils have over your soul or spirit).

I mentioned this in another response on this thread but the nice thing about living in a semi-immortal body would be the ability to augment it (extra arms, gills, height, the ability to live in space or on another planet, etc). You could go into hibernation and only wake every year or every few decades. The most amazing thing is you would be able to experience things beyond what mortal people can - Walk along the bottom of the ocean or the surface of Mars (yeah - I saw Watchmen last week :) ). You could do dangerous and thrilling things which could kill "normal" humans.

My point is immortality would open more doors than simple "living longer". Your whole existence would be vastly different. I think someday humans will obtain something close to immortality and I think it will change our outlook on what it means to be alive as much or more than finding life on another planet will. I would like to live for a long time (I don't know about FOREVER) to be able to see events like these - discoveries so profound that it changes the way we view our own existence.
 

TerranIV

Infidel
what u r talkin about is like reincarnation really, if u popped up once u can pop up again. Reincarnation is real and guaranteed.

Even if it was real there is no guarantee to not come back alive as a worm or something worse. I think I would rather take my chances with the magic duplicator machine! :)
 

TerranIV

Infidel
one think deterrs me though what if i get children my children would get children and after a couple 100 years the hotty i took home and had sexual intercourse with might have been my great great grand child

That could be a problem but I would guess that 100 years in the future people would keep track of their family a little better with futuristic IDs and Facebook. :)

Plus if she is your great-great-great-grandchild she would be so many other people's descendant (64) that she people in the future might consider that to be legally and morally enough generations to have a relationship with. That WOULD be weird to be your child's father AND great-great-great-great-grandfather though! :)
 

TerranIV

Infidel
ye but with living forever you would get quite an extensive family

and this is just if they all only have 2 children

1
22
3333
44444444
55555555555555555
66666666666666666666666666666666

Where are you getting these numbers? It would be more like 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, etc. This is only assuming they also decided to have children or didn't die before they had children or a bunch of other things.

I'm guessing if you lived forever there would be less motivation to have children (no need to keep populating the earth). Some people would still want them but others would not feel the need any longer.

If we decided to live on the moon and/or mars this would give us quite a bit more space to fill. We could then move to other planets and solar systems.

Why not live in space (just in space itself - not on a planet) if you can live and breath perfectly fine without an atmosphere? Anyone who could think of a way to get enough matter together in the middle of empty outer space could create their own moving civilizations which could float through space for eternity encountering new life and new civilizations and boldly go where no trekker has gone before! :)
 

TerranIV

Infidel
If I were offered the opportunity to be translated, and by translation, I mean to be changed from one form to another without losing any of the essence of the original, then yes, I would welcome that opportunity with open arms.

There will come the day, when this earth and even this galaxy, will be unable to sustain physical life forms, and so, If this body of corruptible matter could be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, to a body of glorious and incorruptible Light, would I work toward that goal?

You bet your sweet bippy I would.

You Mormon? :)
 

TerranIV

Infidel
None of those. When I die, I'll want to stay dead, thank you very much.

I don't know. If I'm ever cloned, I'll get back to you on that. ;)

If you were cloned you would just have an identical twin. What I am talking about is a copy of your mind as well as a perfection of your body. Basically the question is aimed at what you consider to be the definition of yourself. If you had a completely new body but with the same mind is that still you? How about if you had a different mind in your old body? Would that be you or a different person?

I think most people think of their mind as their "self." We don't think of someone who is crippled as less "them self" than anyone else but we do think of someone who is brain dead as a "vegetable". I was just wanting people to think about how the modern concept of self is very separate from our bodies - which may have not always been the case throughout history.
 

Spiritone

Active Member
We are infinite as spirit that goes from one incarnation to the next and from one dimension to the next having more powers and abilities as we grow. At some point we will be able to "revisit" our past lives if we choose but probably would have no need to.
Also in reincarnation we can be with the same people we knew before. IT could be a problem if we remembered past incarnations but in some rare cases it has happened.

Be well.
 
Top