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Would Jesus torture animals for food ???

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by maike, Dec 21, 2004.

  1. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    However God loved animal sacrifice.
    Gen.8:20-21 "And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And the Lord smelled a sweet savour."Num.18:17-19 "Thou shalt sprinkle their blood upon the altar, and shalt burn their fat for an offering made by fire, for a sweet savour unto the LORD." Dt.12:27 "And thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, the flesh and the blood, upon the altar of the LORD thy God: and the blood of thy sacrifices shall be poured out upon the altar of the LORD thy God, and thou shalt eat the flesh." there are more, but these should be good enough.
    God seems to have no problem with the death of animals and the eating of thier flesh in the bible. 'Cource it can be hard to tell what the bible says on any subject. ;)

    wa:do
     
  2. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    That's a very good point, PW.
     
  3. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
    Genesis: 1:28 KJV

    Dominion means absolute, or supreme, authority. Absolute authority means we get to decide what role animals play in the grand scheme of things with the exception of his specific laws (again, which we no longer have to follow because Jesus was the culmination of that law) against pork, etc. (Leviticus). If God had not intended for us to eat meat, then there would have been no need for laws against certain types of meat.

    Having absolute authority, however, does not mean we have the right to abuse the animals. That means not debeaking chickens just because you want to cage 5 in space designed for 1. It means avoiding meat where the animals were raised in less than natural conditions so you get a more tender meat (veal comes to mind here). I could go on.
     
  4. Khale

    Khale Active Member

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    I would like to point out that the stories in Genesis were not meant to be taken literally. When it comes down to it vegetarianism is just a personal choice. If you feel that it will bring you closer to God and lead a happy life then go ahead. If it would be a hindrance then don't.
     
  5. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    yes, it seems humanity does decide what animals live and die.... humans decided the fate of one species just this month, they are now extinct. A beautiful bird that will no longer sing.
    We are not mature enough as a species to have that sort of power over all the others.
    Dispite what your god told you. :(

    wa:do
     
  6. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

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    I have stated this a few times before....I believe that "the" Bible started out as a very good interpretation of "God's" word....."man" has since then changed it completely to try an manilpulate other men into doing what they want (perfect example tything).
     
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  7. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    I remember one time back in grade school, the preist came in to teach our religion class. He started talking about the importance of human life, and that's great and all, but it got to the point where he said that if you had the choice to save either the entire species of panda bears, or a 90 year old man who was living as a vegetable, that god would want you to save the 90 year old man. I was rather shocked by this, and remeber thinking that it didn't seem quite right to me. I just hope I never have to make such a decision, otherwise that guy would be history.
     
  8. huajiro

    huajiro Well-Known Member

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    I think this is fricking pathetic. Look at most of the people on the planet these days....are they in any condition to rule over anything? Many can't even get a job or maintain their own lives, and they have the right to take such beautiful creatures' lives. I hate it when people spew this crap out as if we really were these beings in total control of everything.
     
  9. maike

    maike Member

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    OK so God said its fine to eat animals that have had their blood sprinkled on his altar and their fat burned there as well.
    Do the supermarkets do this for you ????
    Does the slaughterhouse or the butcher shop have an altar to God out the back ???
    Not in my country...Christians are going against God by including all this meat in their diet
     
  10. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Or did she?

    The great Jewish philosopher Abarbanel believed animal sacrifice was briefly allowed by God in order to end the idolatry the Jews practiced in Egypt. He cited a Jewish writing that indicated that the Jews had become accustomed to sacrifices in Egypt. To wean them from these idolatrous practices, God tolerated the sacrifices but commanded that they be offered in one central sanctuary:


    Thereupon the Holy One, blessed be He, said "Let them at
    all times offer their sacrifices before Me in the Tabernacle,
    and they will be weaned from idolatry, and thus be saved."
    (Rabbi J. H. Hertz, The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, p. 562)


    This was after the Jews had come out of Egypt. One Jewish theologian indicated that God did not want the Israelites to bring sacrifices; it was their choice. He based this on a biblical verse read on the Sabbath when the book of Leviticus (which discusses sacrifices) is read:

    Isaiah 43:23
    I have not burdened thee with a meal-offering, Nor wearied thee with frankincense.

    The bible teaches that animal sacrifices were voluntary. Many have taken the scriptures to mean that we must sacrifice animals in order to please God. This is not what pleases God. We are commanded to obey his laws. This can be see in the book of Jeremiah:

    Jeremiah 7:22-23
    For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them on the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt-offerings or sacrifices; but this thing I commanded them, saying, "Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people; and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

    God never commanded us to sacrifice animals. His message was "obey my voice". Nowhere in the Ten Commandments is there any reference to sacrifice, and even when sacrifices are first mentioned (Leviticus 1:2) the expression used is "when any man of you bringeth an offering," the first Hebrew word ki being literally "if", implying that it was a voluntary act.

    I say it again: animal sacrifices were never a law of God. Infact God prefers we don't sacrifice animals. That is what is meant by "To do charity and justice is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice" (Proverbs 21:3). Also, in Hosea 6:6, God said "What I want is mercy, not sacrifice." As was stated before, animal sacrifices were permitted only for a brief time after the exodus from Egypt. After that, God began to hate animal sacrifice. Consider the following verses from the book of Isaiah....

    Isaiah 1:11-16
    "The multitude of your sacrifices-- what are they to me?" says the LORD. "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations-- I cannot bear your evil assemblies. Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts my soul hates. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you; even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood; wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong!


    Indeed, the Roman Empire perverted early Christianity greatly. The Nicene Council played a huge role in the changes.
     
  11. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I was totally unaware I was doing so much work for Satan until the past couple of days.

    Christmas
    Easter
    Halloween
    Questioning the Bible
    Forming my own moral base and now..
    Meat eating.

    I don`t think the Devil is giving me fair compensation for all I do for him.

    I think I need to have a little chat with the Lord of Lies about my pay.

    Thanks for tipping me off.
    Don`t worry, I won`t mention who told me.

    :help:
     
  12. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    :jam::jam::jam::jam:

    I`m sorry..but y`all theists are cracking me up this week.
     
  13. pensive

    pensive Member

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    I hate to admit it, but I can see why.
     
  14. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    *Ducks under table*

    Remember, I just copied that off of a website, I don't believe it at all... ;)
     
  15. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Druidus- if that is true, then why did god demand animal sacrifice before the Exodus?
    Abel, Noah, Abraham all offered animal sacrifices to God. Abraham was commanded to offer up animals.
    Gen.15:9-10 "And he [God] said unto him [Abraham], Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another."
    enjoy ;)

    wa:do
     
  16. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Alright... I'm sick of argueing using a book that I don't even believe in, from a religion I am not of. :bonk:

    lol
     
  17. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    Its a bit silly to have a Druid and a Native American arguing over wether or not Christians should be vegitarian or not. ;)
    I know you deeply feel that Vegitarianism is the right way, but trying to use another faiths holy book to tell them your spiritual belief is not a good way to do it.

    wa:do
     
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  18. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    Druidus and HelpMe: I find your usernames (and those of certain others) blurry and almost impossible to read. Are they the so-called "glowing user names" offered in the org store? I use Windows Explorer.

    Please excuse me for going off topic.
     
  19. maike

    maike Member

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    Should i take our two 18 month old golden retrievers Henry & Molly, down to St Marks church this sunday and slit their throats on the altar and then set fire to them to try and get some favor from God ?
    Will the good christians there applaud me or call the police ??
     
  20. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    that's cause all the crazys are coming outta the wood work
     
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