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Would Jesus torture animals for food ???

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by maike, Dec 21, 2004.

  1. maike

    maike Member

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    I consider, that eating the flesh of animals that are raised in filthy overcrowded conditions, pumped full of hormones and anti biotics to keep them alive, end up insane because of the intolerable conditions they are kept in, and are then painfully slaughtered, and often skinned alive just to cater to someone’s desire to eat something they see as 'tasty' but is not essential for their health and well being, by any faith, to be against the ideas of peace, love, compassion, mercy, kindness and humility taught to man by Jesus Christ.

    The bible may say that god said to Noah that he could eat dead animals flesh, and that we have “dominion’ over animals, (does dominion mean treat badly and cause to suffer for our own selfishness and greed ???) but it also says a lot about keeping slaves and stoning women who have sex to death.

    Why did God originally make animals as Adams companions, telling man to eat plants and then change his mind ????. Did he originally make a mistake ?????


    I’m sorry but I think that if you directly or indirectly cause this kind of incredible suffering to other living creatures, just to support a luxury diet, you do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. In fact you are more likely doing the devils work without realising it.
     
  2. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    I agree with you, but posts like these usually only harm the cause. They make omnivores feel we are pompous "holier-than-thou" individuals. Far from it, however.

    In reply to the above poster:

    The Gospel of the Holy Twelve
    God, the Food and Drink of All
    Lection 32​



    For of the fruits of the trees and the seeds of the herbs alone do I partake, and these are changed by the Spirit into my flesh and my blood. Of these alone and their like shall ye eat who believe in me, and are my disciples, for of these, in the Spirit come life and health and healing unto man.


    1. AND it came to pass as he sat at supper with his disciples one of them said unto him: Master, how sayest thou that thou wilt give thy flesh to eat and thy blood to drink, for it is a hard saying unto many?
    2. And Jesus answered and said: The words which I spake unto you are Spirit and they are Life. To the ignorant and the carnally minded they savour of bloodshed and death, but blessed are they who understand.
    3. Behold the corn which groweth up into ripeness and is cut down, and ground in the mill, and baked with fire into bread! of this bread is my body made, which ye see: and lo the grapes which grow on the vine unto ripeness, and are plucked and crushed in the winepress and yield the fruit of the vine! of this fruit of the vine and of water is made my blood.
    4. For of the fruits of the trees and the seeds of the herbs alone do I partake, and these are changed by the Spirit into my flesh and my blood. Of these alone and their like shall ye eat who believe in me, and are my disciples, for of these, in the Spirit come life and health and healing unto man.
    5. Verily shall my Presence be with you in the Substance and Life of God, manifested in this body, and this blood; and of these shall ye all eat and drink who believe in me.
    6. For in all places I shall be lifted up for the life of the world, as it is written in the prophets; From the rising up of the sun unto the going down of the same, in every place a pure Oblation with incense shall be offered unto my Name.
    7. As in the natural so in the spiritual. My doctrine and my life shall be meat and drink unto you, —the Bread of Life and the Wine of Salvation.
    8. As the corn and the grapes are transmuted into flesh and blood, so must your natural minds be changed into spiritual. Seek ye the Transmutation of the natural into the Spiritual.
    9. Verily I say unto you, in the beginning, all creatures of God did find their sustenance in the herbs and the fruits of the earth alone, till the ignorance and the selfishness of man turned many of them from the use which God had given them to that which was contrary to their original use, but even these shall yet return to their natural food, as it is written in the prophets, and their words shall not fail.
    10. Verily God ever giveth of the Eternal Life and Substance to renew the forms of the universe. It is therefore of the flesh and blood, even the Substance and Life of the Eternal, that ye are partakers unto life, and my words are spirit and they are life.
    11. And if ye keep My commandments and live the life of the righteous, happy shall ye be in this life, and in that which is to come. Marvel not therefore that I said unto you, Except ye eat of the flesh and drink the blood of God, ye have no life in you.
    12. And the disciples answered saying: Lord, evermore give us to eat of this bread, and to drink of this cup, for thy words are meat and drink indeed;. By thy Life and by thy Substance may we live forever.

    ~ Thou Shalt Not Kill ~
    Exodus 20:13 - Deuteronomy 5:17

    The exact Hebrew wording of this biblical phrase is lo tirtzack. One of the greatest scholars of Hebrew/English linguistics (in the Twentieth Century) -Dr. Reuben Alcalay - has written in his mammoth book the Complete Hebrew /English Dictionary that "tirtzach" refers to "any kind of killing whatsoever." The word "lo," as you might suspect, means "thou shalt not."

    Many Bible scholars persist with the theory that Christ ate animal flesh, obviously swayed in their opinions by personal habits. The desire to accede to prejudice and uphold existing tradition has been a human characteristic for many centuries, but truth appears now even more important as man exerts his independence in so many aspects of life.

    Respected Bible scholar Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore has researched the frequent use of the word "meat" in the New Testament Gospels. He traced its meaning to the original Greek.

    His findings were first published in World Forum of Autumn, 1947. He reveals that the nineteen Gospel references to "meat" should have been more accurately translated thus:



    Greek word, number of references and actual meaning.






    • Broma 4 "Food"
    • Brosis 4 "The act of eating"
    • Phago 3 "to eat"
    • Brosimos 1 "That which is eaten"
    • Trophe 6 "Nourishment"
    • Prosphagon 1 "Anything to eat"
    Thus, the Authorized Version of John 21:5, .'Have ye any meat?" is incorrect. It should have been translated: "Have ye anything to eat?"



    "Fish" is another frequently mistranslated word in the Bible. Its reference is often not to the form of swimming life, but to the symbol by which early Christians could identify each other. It was a secret sign, needed in times of persecution, prior to official acceptance of Christianity as a state religion.

    The sign of the fish was a mystical symbol and conversational password. Its name deriving from the Greek word for fish, "ichthus" Much later it was represented an acrostic, composed of leading letters of the Greek phrase, "Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter"-"Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour."

    Frequent references to fish are intended as symbolic of The Christ and have nothing to do with the act of eating a dead fish. But the symbol of the fish did not meet with Roman approval. They preferred the sign of the cross, choosing to concentrate more on the death of Christ than on His brilliant life. Perhaps this is one reason only ten percent of His life record appears in the canonical scriptures. Most of His first thirty years has been omitted.
     
  3. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    Well actually i think Jesus would have only eaten kosher animals that had been slaughtered in a halachically approved manner. Kosher butchering is a more humane way of slaughtering animals, they really don't feel any pain and their not pinned up all the time.
     
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    ..., i.e., no giraffes.
     
  5. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    I'm sure that Jesus would get his meat from free range, antibiotic free, humanly treated and 'ethically' slaughtered animals. Such meat is avalable for those who want it and are willing to support the small farms that produce it.

    wa:do
     
  6. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

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    probably not, but i would.
     
  7. Khale

    Khale Active Member

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    I decided to double check this since it is opposite of what I learned in Bible as Literature. As it turns out I only found one website that claims that the hebrew word used is tirtzack. Every other source of information came up with the same word which is Ratsach. Here is a short sumary on its meaning:

    As to your original question, No, Jesus would not torture animals for food. I highly doubt that he was a vegatarian, but actual torture is out of the question.
     
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  8. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    I would have to agree with Khale, torturing animals is wrong.

    I have a question, how does one tell if the meat you buy is free range, will it say free range? Or will there be a special marking?
     
  9. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    It would say "free range", but technically, all they need to call it free range, is some access to the outside. Even a small five-by-five outdoors pen, connected to the outdoors from the regular indoors pen would be enough to legally call it free range.
     
  10. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    How do you then know whether something is truly free range?
     
  11. croak

    croak Trickster

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    I think the best way is for you to have your own farm. ;) Then you're 100% how they're slaughtered because you are the one doing it.
     
  12. Paraprakrti

    Paraprakrti Custom User

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    I completely agree with you. Jesus didn't open any slaughterhouses. And Genesis does explain vegetation as our source of food. My understanding on meat eating prescribed later in the Bible has to do with circumstance. Meet Bob. Bob lives in the desert and can't grow sufficient crops. Ok, God is understanding. He isn't going to force Bob to starve. So if Bob must eat meat then he should eat this, and this, but not that or that, etc. Currently many Christians do try to rationalize meat indulgence by saying that we have dominion over animals and they also reject there being a soul present in animals.
     
  13. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    I am not opposed to meat. Just to suffering. If I had my own farm, I would let the animals live out their lives, and when they died, then I would eat them. I would not kill them for my own selfish reasons.
     
  14. Paraprakrti

    Paraprakrti Custom User

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    ^^^That is 1,000 times more respectable than opening a slaughterhouse, in my humble opinion. If all people could do it this way it would be better. Unforunately, most people are so indulged in meat eating that nothing else really matters to them.
     
  15. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member

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    All in it's probably impossible to live without causing suffering in most countries. In others it's simply difficult to live.
     
  16. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it will be marked as free range. Look for the organic label as well. Many of the organically raised meats will also have a label stating they were free range.
     
  17. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Know thy farmer. We raise our own chickens for eggs but my girls will never be slaughtered. My husband, also affectionally referred to as Mr. Tweety by me, thinks when a chicken's usefulness is done (i.e. they stop laying), then it's time for the stew pot. I don't think so. They offer a useful service and they can go out to pasture, so to speak, when their usefulness is done. Besides, they're still pretty good about keeping my garden free of pests....and sometimes broccoli when I don't watch them.

    A friend of mine has a farm and does free range beef where they are able to roam over about 25 acres and have actual grass to walk on rather than the mudpits common to the stockyards.

    You can probably find places on the internet as well.
     
  18. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    I did not mean all "free range" farms. I mean many, if not most. Even still, I would not use it. I cannot condone, for myself at least, the needless massacre or innocent beings, merely to have a "good taste". To me, that just seems vainglorious and narcissistic.
     
  19. Ceridwen018

    Ceridwen018 Well-Known Member

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    If I could choose, I would choose free-range and organic over everything else. Unfortunately, I do not buy my own food yet.

    I'm puzzled though, Maike. I don't remember god specifically telling Adam and Eve not to eat animals, only plants.
     
  20. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Genesis 1:29
    Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

    It is very clear, that right there it says God gave the first people the plants and the trees for food. Some people try to twist this scripture to mean other things, and try to argue that this does not prove people were eating only the fruits and plants. One popular argument is that it was allowing man to eat vegetables as well as meat, but this is wrong. Humans did not meat eat until after the flood. To prove this we need to turn to the 9th chapter of Genesis.....

    Genesis 9:3
    Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

    Now notice God says "just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything". This is proof that before this point, people were only eating fruits and vegetables. At any rate, at this point God allowed man to eat meat, which opens up the argument that abstaining from meat is a subconscious form of questioning God's mercy. This is not true at all. In fact, vegetarians who believe in the bible are merely preparing themselves for heaven. When the kingdom of heaven is established, all beings will become herbivores. Some might argue that we will not need to eat in heaven, but the bible teaches that even in heaven, beings must eat. For example, in Genesis 19:1-3, angels from heaven ate a meal made of bread. So in heaven, beings will continue to eat. The prophet Isaiah gave many descriptions of this kingdom, and all his visions point to all beings being vegetarian. If all beings in heaven are going to be herbivores, then it would be safe to say that vegetarians living today are merely more prepared for that time. Isaiah chapter 11 gives a lengthy description of the peaceful kingdom, and the 65th chapter has a particular verse that strongly supports the idea of a kingdom filled with nothing but herbivores....

    Isaiah 65:25
    "The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither hunt nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.
     
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