Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Jesus is the author of creation. You are claiming God didn't know how God created?
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Would Jesus Have known what Modern Science knows?
- Thread starter Windwalker
- Start date
So then Jesus' knowledge was limited then, right? When I said that, you accused me of saying that I believed "Jesus didn't know what he was talking about".
Everyone? I'm part of everyone, I do not believe that is true, nor do countless other Christians. You can't just make up support for yourself like this and say everyone knows this, when they don't. They weren't thinking in terms of "historical facts". That was not part of the mentality of ancient humans back then. They were not modernists. That's a recent modern view of history.
Are they? Is the earth factually only 6000 years old? Does the sun factual rotate around the earth? Did vegetation factually grown on the earth before the sun was created? Was there a planet earth even, before the sun existed? If so, how is that possible? How did it form?
You see, you run into some impossible stimulations when you insist the Bible is a book to be relied up as history and science. You genuinely put your faith at risk when you take up that unsupportable position. It becomes a house of card, when you just need one card to be wrong, and the whole structure collapses.
Who wrote the book of Genesis? Was the author(s) of Genesis there at creation?
Regarding Jesus referencing the traditional story of the creation for his culture, that does not mean it was an affirmation of it from a scientific perspective. It was simply him using a common reference point. And even if he himself had awareness of the actual process of creation (something ancients would have had no idea about), him speaking of Adam and Eve is perfectly reasonable.
I speak of Adam and Eve all the time, as they symbolize humanity in a narrative fashion, or a "parable". It is a wonderful, and meaningful story that speaks great truths in its message about humankind. Yet, I know scientifically the actual process was quite different than the narrative. That was not the narratives purpose or function. I don't think it services faith well to fuse the meaning of it, to whether they were facts or not. I say that as much to Christians as I say that to atheists.
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What does that have to do with what I am saying? These are things that Christians believe.
Great dialogue!!
My position would be that from ages 0 - 30, it was scroll knowledge and revelation through what he read. As it said "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him." - if he "grew",it was a process.
I would agree that as man, he was not the all-knowing deity in as much as he emptied himself of those God attributes (Phil. 2)
However, he did understand and spoke about end times. Maybe from the scrolls?
I would concur. Very well laid out.
Now, that is a good question and one that, in my view, has no answer. Other than age 12 and the statement that he grew in wisdom and stature, we don't know anything else. Is there an "age of accountability?" - nothing specific mentioned. In that he did "fulfill the law" there is some measurement of accomplishment.
If there is an age of accountability, then we could say that from then on "he did not sen". Seeing there are some people's lives who received the label of "goody-two-shoes" - I would lean on that he was one fo those.
Absolutely not. A "C" isn't a sin. My daughter came home from college with an "F; on an exam. She cried saying "but I studied for three days"... my response, "That is an "A" for me because you tried your best. Now, let's sit down and see what questions you got wrong to learn." She aced the next exam and the course.
What we have to remember, however, is that he was the "last Adam", like unto the first that was created without sin. So I'm not sure you can equate Jesus with humanity after sin but rather Adam before sin.
Still completely human but as an example of what God intended for human kind from the beginning.
Thoughts?
My position would be that from ages 0 - 30, it was scroll knowledge and revelation through what he read. As it said "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him." - if he "grew",it was a process.
I would agree that as man, he was not the all-knowing deity in as much as he emptied himself of those God attributes (Phil. 2)
However, he did understand and spoke about end times. Maybe from the scrolls?
I would concur. Very well laid out.
Now, that is a good question and one that, in my view, has no answer. Other than age 12 and the statement that he grew in wisdom and stature, we don't know anything else. Is there an "age of accountability?" - nothing specific mentioned. In that he did "fulfill the law" there is some measurement of accomplishment.
If there is an age of accountability, then we could say that from then on "he did not sen". Seeing there are some people's lives who received the label of "goody-two-shoes" - I would lean on that he was one fo those.
I wouldn't believe that personally. Being "without sin" does not mean being right about information 100% of the time. Sin against God, and making mistakes on ideas about things, are not the same thing. If your kid came home with a C on test, would you consider them a sinner because?
Absolutely not. A "C" isn't a sin. My daughter came home from college with an "F; on an exam. She cried saying "but I studied for three days"... my response, "That is an "A" for me because you tried your best. Now, let's sit down and see what questions you got wrong to learn." She aced the next exam and the course.
What we have to remember, however, is that he was the "last Adam", like unto the first that was created without sin. So I'm not sure you can equate Jesus with humanity after sin but rather Adam before sin.
Still completely human but as an example of what God intended for human kind from the beginning.
Thoughts?
It hasn't even been one day!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Usually Christians jump on this sort of thread instantly.
But it's all about physics and Math!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And evolution. And geology.
Yes. Those too!
If I know God at all, God would have seen the end of us whenever that was and then interjected Jesus into the World. So, does it really matter what his mom and dad taught about everything?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Well if he was "fully human" then he should have human limitations to knowledge.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
If you don't believe that the Bible is God's word, why bother analyzing who Jesus is? It's all guess work if that's the case.
I am human and I don't have many limitations IMO.
It has a lot to do.
A non-Christian does not believe that Adam and Eve were real people (and Jesus did_ Matt. 19:4-6); he also doesn't believe the Flood happened (and Jesus did_ Matt. 24:37-39); They also don't believe that Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt (and Jesus believed that_ John 3:14)...Should I continue?
Christian who allows himself to be influenced by a non-Christian will end up removing Jesus from his life. Isn't that what non-Christians are after in the end? Now, who is behind all this effort by non-Christians to kill believers' faith and trust in the inspired Word of God?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Actually a non-Christian , and even most Christians, can know that Adam and Eve were not real people. Jesus could have just been using language that the people of that time could understand. No one is trying to remove Jesus from your life. And the majority of Christians are not science and reality deniers.
From my life? Mmmh, no, you don't have that power, lol.
But you can do that to others, and that's why some "Christians" have fallen into that trap.
No one can be a true Christian who denies what Jesus taught. Will those who have been deceived know?
There are many atheists who in their militancy have dedicated themselves to penetrating theological seminaries, leadership positions in the different religions of the world, etc. They can do a lot of things...but not to Jehovah's Witnesses, your arm doesn't reach that far; we are out of your league, lol.
But you can do that to others, and that's why some "Christians" have fallen into that trap.
No one can be a true Christian who denies what Jesus taught. Will those who have been deceived know?
There are many atheists who in their militancy have dedicated themselves to penetrating theological seminaries, leadership positions in the different religions of the world, etc. They can do a lot of things...but not to Jehovah's Witnesses, your arm doesn't reach that far; we are out of your league, lol.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It is not a trap. It is not an attempt to sway you from Christianity. It is merely demonstrable reality. Even when I was a Christian I did not believe in a lying God. A belief in the myths of Genesis is calling God a liar, even though you probably do not know why.
Hehehe, no ... I much probably don't mind what your opinion is about Genesis.
Muffle me. OMG Muffle me!