Would Jesus Have known what Modern Science knows?

[Five Solas]

It doesn’t matter what it implies because any narcissist can claim divinity.

True, any narcissist can claim divinity.

However, you claimed that Jesus did not claim divinity. He did on many occasions and in many different ways. In fact, He was killed because He claimed divinity. Read the Bible and know.

PS: You do not know the characteristics of a typical narcissist.

 

[Five Solas]

At the moment I just view science as having reached wrong conclusions because of not allowing supernatural intervention and wanting naturalistic answers all the time when in reality many things may not have happened without supernatural intervention and may not have been able to happen without that.

The Bible is packed from beginning to end with supernatural events and miracles. Why? Because God is a supernatural being doing supernatural things in supernatural ways.

Science can only ever hope to explain the natural world. God is not part of the natural world. And so are His deeds. Science cannot explain it nor understand it.

So, any scientist who aims to do that will be frustrated.
For example, God's incarnation and the virgin birth cannot be explained by science. Neither can Jesus' resurrection be explained. Those are miraculous events - supernatural - not part of the natural world.

 

[Five Solas]

While I agree God cannot be scientifically observed, I cannot agree that God is not in the natural world. For instance,

"Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?"
"The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they reveal knowledge.
They have no speech, they use no words;
no sound is heard from them.
Yet their voice b goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.
In the heavens God has pitched a tent for the sun.
It is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
It rises at one end of the heavens
and makes its circuit to the other;
nothing is deprived of its warmth.
There is of course far more that speak of God in the natural world, not in supernatural ways, but in everyday observable nature.

Good day,

God is not part of His creation. He did not create himself into the natural world.
But, creation is a 'tool' in His hands and I fully agree with your quotes.

So, yes, believers see the deeds of God and marvel in it and get to know God better by seeing what He does.

However, He is separate from His creation. Pantheism is the view that the creation is one with God and people who hold that view sometimes worships creation. I do not thing that is what you meant to say.

Pantheism is actually very common - the belief that God consists of everyone and everything. Nothing exists isolated from God, and everything is in some way identified with God. The world is God, and God is the world. All is God, and God is all. For example, a tree is God, a mountain is God, the universe is God, all people are God.

Christians opposes any ideas of pantheism. Christianity says that God created everything, not that he is everything or that everything is God.

 

[Windwalker]

God is not part of His creation. He did not create himself into the natural world.

So you believe creation exists outside of God then. Do you believe that God is Infinite, or finite in being? I thought most Christians believed God was Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent. Omnipresence, God being everywhere at all times, would be consistent with seeing God as Infinite, of course.

Seeing God as outside of creation is not consistent with Omnipresence or Infinite, however. It makes God, a god, a creature distinctly 'other' to other creatures as they are from each other. God becomes one of many, in other words, when seeing literally as an object other to creation. Being spoken of in those terms as a metaphor for the mind to attempt to visualize is understandable, but not as a literal definition of the Divine, of course.

So, yes, believers see the deeds of God and marvel in it and get to know God better by seeing what He does.

Yes, it can have the effect of awakening that Spirit within us. Then believers not only see God in creation itself, they see God in themselves as the creation of God. "Christ in you" is repeated countless times in scripture.

However, He is separate from His creation.

Then God cannot be Infinite. There can be no boundaries to Infinity. If there is an edge, then it is finite. Is God finite in your imagination? He would have to be if indeed literally separate or outside of creation.

I do allow for speaking of God that way however, simply because we think in dualistic language, but with the caveat that is not to be taken literally as defining God as limited the way language forces God to be. Our language is simply not suited to speak of God, or the Infinite, without introducing paradoxes of language and thought.

Pantheism is the view that the creation is one with God and people who hold that view sometimes worships creation. I do not thing that is what you meant to say.

I think you are confusing pantheism with animism.

Pantheism is actually very common - the belief that God consists of everyone and everything. Nothing exists isolated from God, and everything is in some way identified with God. The world is God, and God is the world. All is God, and God is all. For example, a tree is God, a mountain is God, the universe is God, all people are God.

Yes and no. Not exactly. A tree is still a tree. A cat is still a cat. I am still "I", yet these things, these distinct objects, are individual expressions of the Divine as that cat, as that tree, and as "me". In other words, while the cat is a cat, John is John, their true nature, beyond the appearances as "other" to the rest of creation, are individual expressions of that One Reality. This is nonduality. The true "Self", is the Divine, as nothing can be separate from the Divine as the Divine, or God or Godhead, is Infinite with neither beginning nor end, no edges, no boundaries.

I see no conflict with this understanding and Christianity. Traditional theism, is really just a "literalizing" of a nondual perspective, one which includes pantheism, with a dualistic perspective based on human language and thought.

In reality, Christian theology at its highest forms, is Panentheistic, which holds both a theistic and pantheist view together paradoxically. That is really what the Trinitarian formula expresses; Transcendence and Immanence; the Father, the Son (Logos), and Spirit. That Spirit is definitely within the world. It is "in you", teaches scripture.

There is a reason theologians call it a "mystery". It is because it is paradoxical. It cannot be viewed or conceptualized dualisticially. It literally transcends languaging.

Christians opposes any ideas of pantheism.

No they don't. Not all of them, that is.

Christianity says that God created everything, not that he is everything or that everything is God.

As I said, Christianity is in reality, in its theology, more panentheistic, that God parodically both transcends creation and is fully immanent within creation at the same time. The average person however needs to conceptualize God as external to themselves and the world, as if they were looking at another person, or some other object in the world.

This is simply a mental device, however. Not the actuality of the Divine, which transcends dualistic thought like this. God is fully transcendent to us, and fully imminent with us. And the "believer" is one who recognizes that "Christ in you". The mind conceptualizes God as an object. The soul embraces God as "closer than their own breath", or fully within themselves, and all of creation.