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Would it be best for evolutionists to just ignore creationsts?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by St Giordano Bruno, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I didn't say anything about it being "okay"; that's up to you to figure out. All I'm saying is that the theory of evolution doesn't make the implicit claim that no gods exist.

    It does make claims about the process by which life came to be, and it's entirely possible for a religion to come up with competing claims. But this is different from saying that the theory of evolution is "godless". It's compatible with all sorts of religious beliefs; just not yours, apparently.

    I'd agree that it's irreconcilable with a literal interpretation of Genesis, and whether a literal interpretation of Genesis is actually required of Christians is a question that I'm not going to answer myself, but I do notice that many Christians do reject what you're implying.

    Two points:

    - if you think that an immediate precursor species to humanity is necessary to demonstrate that evolution is true, then you don't understand evolution... or speciation.

    - even setting that aside, I hope you're not suggesting that failure to support evolution would be support for Biblical creation in and of itself. Biblical creationism is its own set of hypotheses that need to be defended on their own merits. They don't work as some default answer that we can assume is correct if we can't find anything else.
     
  2. Draka

    Draka Wonder Woman

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    Not to mention the question of why should the biblical creation myth be the default creation myth? That is, there are numerous creation myths from varying religions all over the world and throughout time. If one harbors doubt about evolution, why should the biblical creation myth be the thing that is jumped to first? Why not any other? What supposed evidence is there that actually would validate one myth over any other?
     
  3. Matthew78

    Matthew78 aspiring biblical scholar

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    I'm curious; what "facts" led you to believe in creation and a deeper faith in Christ?
     
  4. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    makes no sense at all.

    i dont see a ounce of logic or reason in it
     
  5. Matthew78

    Matthew78 aspiring biblical scholar

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    I suspect it's another variation of "since-there's-no-god, I-can-do-anything-I-want-including-lying-cheating-murdering-stealing". The idea is that if evolution or some supposedly antitheistic idea, belief, hypothesis, or what-not is true, then the consequence is moral nihilism. "Without God, everything is permissible" is the thinking of some of these people.
     
  6. St Giordano Bruno

    St Giordano Bruno Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly the reason why they should be ignored.
     
  7. johnhanks

    johnhanks Well-Known Member

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    As another poster has indicated, there is a strong suggestion here that your conception of how new species arise is flawed. Evolution is not a linear progression from one species to the next but a constant branching process, with some branches going on to flourish and others coming to an end. There was not, therefore, a single "ape like creature" prior to humans: there were scores of such populations, to one of which (at any given time) we might trace our lineage. Australopithecus sediba is a particularly significant recent find:

     
  8. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    If creationists want their creation myth to be taught in science classroom, then definitely don't ignore them. But that problem is actually in the US than elsewhere.
     
  9. Matthew78

    Matthew78 aspiring biblical scholar

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    To your credit, I'm glad that you realize something that escapes the notice of an actual scientist like Kenneth Miller. He is a cell biologist, an evolutionist, and a Catholic. I read his book Finding Darwin's God and while I admire his scientific expertise in cell biology and how he uses it to debunk "irreducible complexity", I regret that he seriously thinks that Christianity can successfully accomodate evolution. I don't think the poor man knows squat about biblical Hebrew and his statements have led me to question his knowledge of biblical scholarship.



    Please tell me you're not a fan of Henry Morris, Duane Gish, or the loathsome Jonathan Sarfati. Otherwise, I'm curious as to what "scientific evidence" you think supports biblical creationism.



    What "ape like creature" do you believe evolution retrodicts that would link humans to other life? What about the fossils that anthropologists and evolutionary biologists do believe illustrates human evolution?
     
  10. St Giordano Bruno

    St Giordano Bruno Well-Known Member

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    That is because in the US, creationists are getting way too much attention and even hostile attention is better than no attention at all in their view. Elsewhere in the world they are generally ignored.
     
  11. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    I find this statement wrong on a few levels

    he is offering a positive view in which everyone is a winner.



    Many christians worldwide accept their religion and evolution.



    Heres what happens when religion doesnt evolve, it goes stagnent anbd fails, and thats what will happen if you pit science against theology.



    The key factor is to let the two merge together or you will build a wall that wil be the beginning of the end of christianity. It cannot compete or survive against science and reality
     
  12. Oneatatime

    Oneatatime Huh?

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    Depends on who they are trying to preach too. If they are directing their efforts at scientists then they can be safetly ignored but once they start focusing on the public and politics then they need to be opposed because it's easy to get political and public support for stupid ideas through the use of rhetoric and logical fallacies which most aren't equiped to deal with.
     
  13. Man of Faith

    Man of Faith Well-Known Member

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    You mean you don't know? Your theory doesn't tell you? That's real empirical science right there. :areyoucra
     
  14. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    He's not asking evolution, he's asking you, oh one who is educated in evolution.

    Why not answer him? :)
     
  15. camanintx

    camanintx Well-Known Member

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    Those who have actually studied the evidence believe otherwise.
     
  16. Matthew78

    Matthew78 aspiring biblical scholar

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    Who says I don't know? What I know or don't know is irrelevant in this case. I am asking you what you think evolution retrodicts. What "ape-like"creatures do you think evolutionary biologists believe to have existed?

    In other words, I'm trying to understand what you find so unbelievable about evolution.

    If you reply, can you reply without the arrogant sarcasm?
     
  17. St Giordano Bruno

    St Giordano Bruno Well-Known Member

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    ho hum
     
  18. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Not all theists are christian, not all christians are biblical literalists, and god isn't bound to what ancient goat herders wrote regardless.
     
  19. St Giordano Bruno

    St Giordano Bruno Well-Known Member

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    If we deliberately set out to attack creationists, declare war on them then that would be counterproductive for the cause of evolution. It would only make them look more like a victim than a foe as people would run to them out of sympathy and side with them. It would be best to the simple ignore them just as we do not confirm certain "friends" on Facebook or unfriend them if they are a jolly nuisance rather than post insults on their wall or make status updates that show our displeasure to them.
     
  20. Man of Faith

    Man of Faith Well-Known Member

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    I think I see what you are doing. Let me get this straight, the ToE is the teacher and I'm the student. The ToE says that mankind evolved from an ape like creature. The student asks "what ape like creature, show it to me". And the teacher says you show me.

    I don't believe that man came from an ape like creature. I'm trying to see the empirical evidence for the so called ape like creature that the ToE says that man came from. Why are you asking me to show it when I don’t believe it exists, evolutionists do, so they should present it as evidence of their claim.
     
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