Would Iran Actually Nuke Israel?

[Caladan]

I suppose if Iran was interested in committing national suicide they might nuke Israel. This doesn't fit the profile of the most of the large number of Iranian people I've personally known, but Iran's government and religious leadership has always been less than stable and pretty detrimental to its people.

I have to generally agree with this. myself and other of my Israeli friends met with Iranians abroad on several occasions, while they were perfectly normal and ordinary people, and both of us had equal interest in getting to know the others, they also told us that the Iranian government makes sure to completely indoctrinate people, obviously many of these Iranians did not have much sympathy for the Iranian government, sometimes they told us straight away that people in Iran are literally indoctrinated to have a fatal hatred for us as Israelis. one girl said 'we were indoctrinated to kill you'.

 

[England my lionheart]

I joined this forum to ask this question specifically. I've been kicking this idea around in my head and I think it come down to a religious aspect. Islam and Muslim's also see the Israeli lands as their holy lands. And I feel like they would have a problem with destroying and irradiating their holy land. Or is that not much of an issue. Maybe I'm wrong though. I'm not Muslim nor do I know anyone that is. So maybe a Muslim could help me answer this question.

I doubt it,it doesn't fit in with the comming of the Mehdi,whats more interesting is what happens in Syria,depending on the outcome of what may turn into civil war Iran could become cut off from Hezbollah which would leave Hez a weakened force both politically and Militarialy,so i think its watch and see.

There are some things happening though BBC News - World

BBC News - Iran and the undeclared campaign

 

[Aniihya]

Let me fill you in.

Iran’s leaders urged the Hamas prime minister of Gaza to continue the Islamic militant group’s resistance against Israel and promised support, state TV reported on Sunday.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei told Hamas’ Ismail Haniyeh that Iran would always stand by the Palestinian “resistance’’ against Israel and warned him against “compromisers.’’

From an article from yesterday: Iran urges Hamas to continue fight against Israel - Boston.com

Though that relation is rather one sided. If Hamas doesnt care about Iran but Iran cares about the Hamas, it doesnt change the fact that Hamas doesnt care about Iran.

To add, seeing how the media abuses the naivite of people is sad since I have seen way too many newspapers and news shows using old material and propaganda that fool people. I have lost trust in the media, so thats why I rather have friends around the world who tell me the real story rather than things that dont happen.

 

[Caladan]

Though that relation is rather one sided. If Hamas doesnt care about Iran but Iran cares about the Hamas, it doesnt change the fact that Hamas doesnt care about Iran.

You may try to spin it every way you want. the leaders of both parties meet to promote mutual interests. furthermore in your words you questioned the reality of Iran using Hamas. please don't try to change your words or subject.

 

[England my lionheart]

Though that relation is rather one sided. If Hamas doesnt care about Iran but Iran cares about the Hamas, it doesnt change the fact that Hamas doesnt care about Iran.

Would they bite the hand that feeds them?

 

[Aniihya]

Here is something interesting you people might to want to look into:

Media Manipulation

Nevertheless, you don't know what the meeting was about. It could just be talks about funding the Palestinian state that Israel continues to fail to recognize. Since it was the prime minister of Gaza and not the leader of the Hamas military wing. Would you assume that if Raul Castro and the prime minister of the PRC would meet, that they would be conspiring against capitalist America?

 

[Caladan]

Here is something interesting you people might to want to look into:

Media Manipulation

Nevertheless, you don't know what the meeting was about. It could just be talks about funding the Palestinian state that Israel continues to fail to recognize. Since it was the prime minister of Gaza and not the leader of the Hamas military wing. Would you assume that if Raul Castro and the prime minister of the PRC would meet, that they would be conspiring against capitalist America?

As already posted for you to read earlier the parties talked about Palestinian armed resistance.

EDIT: furthermore. information about armed Iranian support to Hamas, including weapons used against civilians is highly accessible today. there is no need to pretend this is some conspiracy with no mention in the media.

 

[YmirGF]

EDIT: furthermore. information about armed Iranian support to Hamas, including weapons used against civilians is highly accessible today. there is no need to pretend this is some conspiracy with no mention in the media.

How dare you, Dan.:149:

It is unconscionable of you to bring reality into the discussion. Our friend has a narrative to convey!

 

[Aniihya]

Checking sources, the articles either are sourced with Associated Press or have no sources.

Associated Press
German and Polish Wiki pages say that the Pentagon has intervened or even written thousands of AP articles, while the English language says nothing about it.

AP: Authoritarian Propaganda - WSJ.com
Then although this article is more of opinion and personal research, the author still writes some good examples.I am saying you guys fall for the media too easily. The picture from the Hamas leader and Mohammad Reza Rahimi is actually from 2009. The two authors of the article have no proof to back up their article and many other articles are linked to this article as a source, most of them conservative and ultra-conservative Jewish and Christian sites. Since 2009 the connection between the Hamas and Iran have faded by far, due to Iran wanting control Hamas and Hamas being uncontrollable. Due to Hamas' stance towards Israel they are still funded by Iran. I can take apart any article within an hour using special search engines for journalism.

It is true that Iran isnt exactly the good guy but they don't exactly have the strong connection that the western media assumes they have. Hezbollah is actually a closer partner to Iran than Hamas is.
So I wouldn't count on articles from sources or authors who are known to write biased articles towards near eastern nations so that the US and Israel can inflict fear among citizens so that they hate the targeted nations.

PS: Duh. It is known that Iran supports the Hamas but the Hamas doesn't really support Irans interest to control the Hamas. Imagine Iran is a guy who loves a girl. He buys everything for this girl but doesnt get that he is so blind that the girl accepts these presents but doesnt return any feelings for Iran. This girl is Hamas.

 

[YmirGF]

Checking sources, the articles either are sourced with Associated Press or have no sources.

Associated Press
German and Polish Wiki pages say that the Pentagon has intervened or even written thousands of AP articles, while the English language says nothing about it.

AP: Authoritarian Propaganda - WSJ.com
Then although this article is more of opinion and personal research, the author still writes some good examples.I am saying you guys fall for the media too easily. The picture from the Hamas leader and Mohammad Reza Rahimi is actually from 2009. The two authors of the article have no proof to back up their article and many other articles are linked to this article as a source, most of them conservative and ultra-conservative Jewish and Christian sites. Since 2009 the connection between the Hamas and Iran have faded by far, due to Iran wanting control Hamas and Hamas being uncontrollable. Due to Hamas' stance towards Israel they are still funded by Iran. I can take apart any article within an hour using special search engines for journalism.

It is true that Iran isnt exactly the good guy but they don't exactly have the strong connection that the western media assumes they have. Hezbollah is actually a closer partner to Iran than Hamas is.
So I wouldn't count on articles from sources or authors who are known to write biased articles towards near eastern nations so that the US and Israel can inflict fear among citizens so that they hate the targeted nations.

The odd thing though is that I rather doubt that Caladin or myself hate the nation of Iran. I don't even hate their leadership, for lack of a better word. (Overlords, perhaps.) What you seem to fail to recognize is how unpopular the Iranian regime is with the Iranians, especially the young, IN IRAN. It's not about hating Iran or it's "leadership". It's about how to remove a deeply entrenched dictatorship with the least amount of casualties. Is that a problem?

 

[Aniihya]

Articles I have seen and analyzed lately say nothing about removing a dictatorship but rather saying that a war is possible, Iran supposedly has a nuclear weapons program and other BS like that. Been to Iran, visited Sufi shrines and only seen dissent from young Iranians who believe Marxism is a great principle for a new government. I think every Iranian has different views on the government: Some want real democracy, some want communism, some dont have a problem with the government but still demand liberalization and then there are those who side with the government (mostly older folks and not a small portion of adults and young Iranians). Just because a group says they are the 99% doesnt mean they are. I am in favor for a liberalization, maybe get rid of the death penalty for homosexuals for a start and lessen the enforcement of clothing laws. But a complete change might end up like Egypt with Islamists getting lots of seats or Libya with a civil war or Syria with massacring the populace. An immediate change would make people go for drastic actions and all hell would break loose. But doing everything step by step can actually satisfy the people some each time and you will somewhere find the compromise between the liberal and the conservative population.

 

[Gharib]

You can keep telling yourself that Muslim politicians both in the past and in the present are pure and do not take part in any corruption whatsoever.
you can also add an angelic aura to any historical Muslim leader you like, it still wouldn't make it sound more realistic.

i agree that not all muslim leaders of the islamic state were free from corruption, at the end of the day the people are ruled by a ruler they are deserving of. however, our laws minimize the chances of a ruler turning corrupt and mistreating his people. you will see what i mean in a few years time when in Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood has everything under control.

now lets put that to the test. in all the uprisings in the islamic dominant countries, the soldiers turned against their leaders because islam forbids obeying a tyrant and killing innocent people. Gaddafi may he rot in hell had to pay non-muslim soldiers from other countries to come and do the killing for him because his soldiers abandoned him. if the same happened in Israel or any other country for that matter do you expect the army to abandon the president? i don't think so.

 

[Gharib]

Here

Iran’s clerical elites make billions vanish « Money Jihad

although i would not fall short of accepting something when true, in that link all it says is that Khameneis son is in charge of oil exports, there is no evidence that any money has been stolen. and if you think that suggesting that He will steal money is evidence then i have to disagree. If he suddenly makes a lot of money, then thats what you get from the oil business. sorry you have to provide something better to support your claim.

 

[Looncall]

i agree that not all muslim leaders of the islamic state were free from corruption, at the end of the day the people are ruled by a ruler they are deserving of. however, our laws minimize the chances of a ruler turning corrupt and mistreating his people. you will see what i mean in a few years time when in Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood has everything under control.

now lets put that to the test. in all the uprisings in the islamic dominant countries, the soldiers turned against their leaders because islam forbids obeying a tyrant and killing innocent people. Gaddafi may he rot in hell had to pay non-muslim soldiers from other countries to come and do the killing for him because his soldiers abandoned him. if the same happened in Israel or any other country for that matter do you expect the army to abandon the president? i don't think so.

Really? so why is the Syrian army torturing children and murdering infants?

 

[Looncall]

although i would not fall short of accepting something when true, in that link all it says is that Khameneis son is in charge of oil exports, there is no evidence that any money has been stolen. and if you think that suggesting that He will steal money is evidence then i have to disagree. If he suddenly makes a lot of money, then thats what you get from the oil business. sorry you have to provide something better to support your claim.

Your attempt to whitewash this villainy is hilarious.

Well, here's another report. A few moments spent with Google will find you more.

Rafsanjani’s riches « Money Jihad

 

[839311]

But doing everything step by step can actually satisfy the people some each time and you will somewhere find the compromise between the liberal and the conservative population.

I agree. The PRC is a good example. The PRC has made some important changes politically, socially, and economically. I think the key is economic growth. If people are poor they are angry. If they are rich they are content. China has managed to maintain about a 10% growth rate per year for decades, which is phenomenal. Iran seems to be developing well economically too. Though, there are important differences between the PRC and Iran, one of which is religious fundamentalism in Iran.

The problem with Iran is that it is a theocracy and there are too many fundamentalist nutcases running the country. The whole death to America and death to Israel thing needs to stop. Iran is distrusted by much of the world, and for good reason. If the religion can be taken out of the government, that would go a long way to stabilizing the country and getting much of the world to trust Iran again. This doesn't have to happen in one go, because that would take a revolution which could leave a lot of people dead and the country in ruins. But as you say, step by step, one reform at a time. I hope that the changes come this way, as opposed to a revolution. I do think that the changes will come, one way or another. I think there is already a lot of popular resentment against the fundamentalist government, and I think this is only going to grow if the reforms aren't coming. People are getting richer, and they are getting smarter. They know whats good for them, and it is definitely not a theocracy.

 

[Caladan]

now lets put that to the test. in all the uprisings in the islamic dominant countries, the soldiers turned against their leaders because islam forbids obeying a tyrant and killing innocent people. Gaddafi may he rot in hell had to pay non-muslim soldiers from other countries to come and do the killing for him because his soldiers abandoned him. if the same happened in Israel or any other country for that matter do you expect the army to abandon the president? i don't think so.

You are wrong on several accounts. right now the Syrian troops are killing common Syrians in the name of Assad, likewise in Egypt the army and Egyptian police secured power for themselves for about a year after Mubarak was out of the picture, they cracked down on ordinary Egyptians and journalists.
as for Israel, this comparison is not even applicable, Israel is the most stable nation in the region. no civil wars, no revolutions, no coup d'états. Israeli society is much more solid, the Israeli army is the people's army so the extremely hypothetical scenario of it enforcing discipline on the citizens in the name of a president is not realistic. Israel has never known the dictatorships that exist in Arab countries, has never known the kind of cracking down on the public that Arab countries army, police and authorities show.

 

[Rakhel]

An interactive map on world corruption and where each country stands in ranking.
Corruption Perceptions Index: Transparency International

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/#CountryResults