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Featured Would God do what God has never done?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    God does not want us to believe without evidence. God does provide evidence, just not the kind of evidence you want. ;)
     
  2. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    and what evidence would that be? The middle men? :)

    ciao

    - viole
     
  3. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    The christian God appeared once as Jesus. That's all we've got.
     
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe not. My experience is that He won't waste His time on lost causes. In essence God has given sufficient word for a person to be saved and anyone can get a Bible and read it.
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you are wrong. He does wish to be known and has spoken about Himself and has shown He cares by dying on the cross for people.
     
  6. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it is a very hands on approach for Him to provide the Holy Spirit.
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Yep, but they are not ordinary men, they are Manifestations of God.
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not believe that there is a Christian God. I believe there is one true God who was revealed by all the Messengers of God who were the Founders of all the great religions. These Messengers were Manifestations of God thus they were in effect the appearance of God on Earth, and that means God has appeared at various times throughout the history of the human race, not just once in Jesus.
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    God has given sufficient word for people to know He exists, not only in the Bible but in the Qur’an and the Writings of Baha’u’llah.

    If the Bible had been sufficient, there would not be so many atheists.

    According to my Baha’i beliefs, there is no such thing as “saved” because there is nothing to be saved from, except our lower material selves.

    Nobody is a lost cause, there is always hope.
     
  10. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    let me see. The evidence of God is the middle man, and this is because he is not an ordinary man, but because he is a manifestation of God? :)

    Cool. Albeit a bit circular, don’t you think?

    Can you provide some not question begging evidence?

    ciao

    - viole
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.[1] The components of a circular argument are often logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true. Circular reasoning - Wikipedia

    The evidence that God provides for His existence is Manifestations of God. That is not circular because I am not beginning with what I am trying to end with since the Manifestations of God are not God.

    The evidence that Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God is not that He claimed to be a Manifestation of God because that would be circular reasoning. The evidence is everything that indicates that He was a Manifestation of God.

    There is no proof that He was a Manifestation of God, only evidence that indicates that. Nobody can ever prove that Baha’u’llah got communication from God; He and God are the only Ones who can know that for certain.

    I have had two requests for evidence that Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God so I will be posting a new thread this coming weekend.
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I can't imagine any scenario where it would be reasonable to expect a god to communicate with humanity in any way whatsoever, whether directly as you describe or indirectly through messengers. The idea that a god might have any sort of message for humanity seems ludicrous to me.
     
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I see it the opposite way. The idea that God would not have any communication with humans would mean He did not care about them. Why would God create creatures He did not care about? Why would God leave us completely alone to fend for ourselves? That would not be a Loving God.
     
  14. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    The idea that a god would care about humanity also seems ludicrous to me.

    I have no idea. I also see the idea of a creator-god as ludicrous, especially if the god is supposed to be perfect.

    Why would a supposedly perfect God do anything? How would creating things - or anything else he might do - make things better or solve any problem if he was already as good as he could be without creating, and had no problems to solve?

    Why would we expect God to feel love at all?

    Humans feel love because we're social creatures. Sociability has been ingrained in us through billions of years of evolution.

    God, OTOH, has none of these pressures or conditioning to be social. Whether you think he always existed or magically poofed into being, we're talking about a solitary creature: a hyper-intelligent, hyper-powerful creature that's alien not only to our planet, but to our entire universe, initally more totally alone than any being that has ever existed. It's absolutely bizarre to me that anyone would expect such a creature to express sociability in ways that a human would.

    We're talking about something that would have much less in common than, say, an octopus. We would expect its thought processes to be many times more inscrutable to us than those of an octopus.

    When you talk about God having human attributes like feeling love, I think you're getting very close to "big man with a long white beard sitting on a cloud" levels on anthromorphism of God.
     
  15. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    And what is this evidence that she was a manifestation of God?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    God is not the one with problems to solve, humans are the ones who have problems to solve. God sends Messengers who reveal what we need to solve our problems.
    Humans were created in the image and likeness of God. God is love and that is why humans love.
    You are absolutely correct. God is not a social being. As I told @ Left Coast yesterday, according to my beliefs God is unapproachable and unreachable so we cannot ‘socialize’ with God because we are not on God’s level. God is one and alone, detached from all things, self-subsisting. God has no associates or partners, as some Christians believe.
    You are absolutely correct. God is inscrutable to all except Himself.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    He, not she. :)

    I will list the categories of evidence when I post the thread.
     
  18. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Thank you for reminding me why I stopped responding to you.

    You didn't read my post. When you're ready for a real conversation, let me know.

    I'm not interested in playing along with your game where you reply with some stock response that you parrot based on a keyword in my post even if it's irrelevant to what I said.
     
  19. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Why He?

    ciao

    - viole
     
  20. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not know. To date Messengers of God have always been men, but in the future there might be a woman Messenger. I heard from a Baha’i that there is something in the Baha’i Writings that indicates the next Messenger might be a woman.

    I am guessing they have always been men simply because humanity was not yet ready for a woman Messenger, but times are changing.
     
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