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Worthy or not here I come?

W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
How does your POV deal with how an unworthy person can come to a holy God? Is anyone worthy enough? Is a person to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps?'


How does your view comport to Jesus. Who is Jesus?
Lets take a look in 3 scenes

Scene 1
John the Baptist makes a dramatic statement about the coming Messiah
The greatest prophet till then, John the Baptist, said he wasn't worthy to help Jesus with his sandals

Scene 2
An uninvited prostitte barges in a dinner party
A party held at a very religious Pharasee House. A great sinner anointed Jesus feet with expensive oil and kissed them weeping, even tho unworthy and Jesus allowed her to, It's a party stopper when Jesus tells the prostitute her sins are forgiven by her faith. Guests gasp! How dare he say that?

Scene 3
The Last Supper, a Passover meal before Jesus is arrested
Jesus the most worthy by light years wraps himself in a towel washed his apostle's feet himself at the last supper The high dwelling with the low, making a way home to God serving them first, even with his life, so they can serve God, glorifying God, acceptably.
 
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stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
whirlingmerc said:
Can you share how you see that in Indian Scriptures or are you saying 'in toto' and not in any particulars
Click to expand...
Yes is easy to explain. Indian Scriptures teach that all are "children of God", "divine sparks" etc. Would be blaspheme to belittle "God's child"
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Since the OP is from a Christian, I'll answer from that POV:

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So what are the fruits and what is iniquity? To me that is also spelled out clearly:

[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

We can discuss what loving God entails but the second commandment to me is clear. If someone does not act according to the law of love, they necessarily have crossed over into iniquity.

I also have to add that we're not perfect and will not always act according to the Law of Love, but if our hearts are inclined in that direction and we strive to realize that, we're in good shape.

 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well, inasmuch as the Lord knowingly created a morally defective product -- twice -- I'd say it was he who's to blame for all our defects.
If you put square wheels on a car, you can't expect a smooth ride.
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
sun rise said:
I also have to add that we're not perfect and will not always act according to the Law of Love, but if our hearts are inclined in that direction and we strive to realize that, we're in good shape.
Click to expand...
The moment I do one (moral) step towards God, He usually shows me 10 more I also need to work on:)
If I had the willpower to immediately do all the 10 steps, probably He might show me 100 more
If you chooise God as your guide, you can move forward like a rocket
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
whirlingmerc said:
How does your POV deal with how an unworthy person can come to a holy God? Is anyone worthy enough? Is a person to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps?'


How does your view comport to Jesus. Who is Jesus?
Lets take a look in 3 scenes

Scene 1
John the Baptist - dramatic statement about the coming Messiah
The greatest prophet till then, John the Baptist, said he wasn't worthy to help Jesus with his sandals

Scene 2
An uninvited prostitte barges in a dinner party at a very religious Pharasee House
A great sinner anointed Jesus feet with expensive oil and kissed them weeping, even tho unworthy and he allowed her to, even saying her faith saved her and used her as and example of one who was forgiven much loving much. Jesus telling her she, a great sinner is forgiven by faith, is a party stopper.

Scene 3
The last supper, a Passover meal before Jesus is arrested
Jesus the most worthy wrapped in a towel washed his apostle's feet himself at the last supper
The high dwelling with the low, making a way home to God, the end and means of our salvation and the treasure of heaven. He loves those who come to him as you are but too much to leave them as they are.
Click to expand...

What exactly does worthiness mean anyways? And what makes God worthy from the Christian point of view? The entity is best described as a tyrant.
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
whirlingmerc said:
How does your POV deal with how an unworthy person can come to a holy God? Is anyone worthy enough? Is a person to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps?'


How does your view comport to Jesus. Who is Jesus?
Lets take a look in 3 scenes

Scene 1
John the Baptist - dramatic statement about the coming Messiah
The greatest prophet till then, John the Baptist, said he wasn't worthy to help Jesus with his sandals

Scene 2
An uninvited prostitte barges in a dinner party at a very religious Pharasee House
A great sinner anointed Jesus feet with expensive oil and kissed them weeping, even tho unworthy and he allowed her to, even saying her faith saved her and used her as and example of one who was forgiven much loving much. Jesus telling her she, a great sinner is forgiven by faith, is a party stopper.

Scene 3
The last supper, a Passover meal before Jesus is arrested
Jesus the most worthy wrapped in a towel washed his apostle's feet himself at the last supper
The high dwelling with the low, making a way home to God, the end and means of our salvation and the treasure of heaven. He loves those who come to him as you are but too much to leave them as they are.
Click to expand...
Surely part of the reason why God was made Man in Christ was precisely to enable ordinary and presumably "unworthy" men and women to come into direct contact with God. I don't see the problem.
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Galateasdream said:
It's not so much about us coming to God, as it is about God coming to us. Even being here already.
Click to expand...
IF I take 1 step towards God, God takes 1*100 steps towards me
IF I take 0 step towards God, God takes 0*100 steps towards me

So I do agree. It is not so much(1 step will do) about us coming to God, as it is about God(100 steps) coming to us
 
Deeje

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
whirlingmerc said:
How does your POV deal with how an unworthy person can come to a holy God? Is anyone worthy enough? Is a person to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps?'
Click to expand...

Yes, we are told that we have to put in a lot of effort to overcome our sinful tendencies, though no one can do that perfectly. Israel had to make sacrifices for their sins but it didn't remove sin. Effort was needed to stay on the 'cramped and narrow road'.
Jesus said....
Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able.” (Luke 13:24)

Romans 4:1-3
"That being so, what will we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For instance, if Abraham was declared righteous as a result of works, he would have reason to boast, but not with God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” (Quoting Genesis 15:6)

So faith has to be backed up by obedience. Works alone mean nothing.

How does your view comport to Jesus. Who is Jesus?
Lets take a look in 3 scenes

Scene 1
John the Baptist - dramatic statement about the coming Messiah
The greatest prophet till then, John the Baptist, said he wasn't worthy to help Jesus with his sandals
Click to expand...

John was a prophet.....but Jesus was the Messiah.....that is why he said he was needing to be baptized by Jesus, not the other way around. But Jesus said that it must take place, just this once, because Jesus had no sin needing repentance. His baptism meant something different.

Scene 2
An uninvited prostitte barges in a dinner party at a very religious Pharasee House
A great sinner anointed Jesus feet with expensive oil and kissed them weeping, even tho unworthy and he allowed her to, even saying her faith saved her and used her as and example of one who was forgiven much loving much. Jesus telling her she, a great sinner is forgiven by faith, is a party stopper.
Click to expand...

As a reader of hearts, Jesus knew when repentance was a condition of the heart. He saw in this woman, not her sins, but her heartfelt sorrow as to her former course, and a genuine desire to please her Lord.
The Pharisees couldn't get past her sin. Jesus saw beyond it.

Scene 3
The last supper, a Passover meal before Jesus is arrested
Jesus the most worthy wrapped in a towel washed his apostle's feet himself at the last supper
The high dwelling with the low, making a way home to God, the end and means of our salvation and the treasure of heaven. He loves those who come to him as you are but too much to leave them as they are.
Click to expand...

The great lesson in humility.....it was a very 'Jewish' thing to seek prominence, as we see when the apostles often argued among themselves about who was the greatest. Jesus showed them that the greatest one was the most humble one.

So, from my POV, although we are sinners, God can impute righteousness to us because of the condition of our heart, and our earnest desire to obey God and the teachings of his Christ in all things.
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Nowhere Man said:
What exactly does worthiness mean anyways? And what makes God worthy from the Christian point of view? The entity is best described as a tyrant.
Click to expand...
Defined Attributes of God I learned: Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, all-loving etc.

You seem to believe in stories that certain humans wrote (claiming it came from God), that picture God as a tyrant and assume those stories to be trustworthy, and superimpose your 'mental picture' on God.

My 'mental picture' is formed by the above definition with positive attributes. Humans behave sometimes like tyrants. God or Consciousness or Truth does not change. This concept makes more sense to me.
 
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syo

syo

Well-Known Member
whirlingmerc said:
How does your POV deal with how an unworthy person can come to a holy God? Is anyone worthy enough? Is a person to 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps?'


How does your view comport to Jesus. Who is Jesus?
Lets take a look in 3 scenes

Scene 1
John the Baptist makes a dramatic statement about the coming Messiah
The greatest prophet till then, John the Baptist, said he wasn't worthy to help Jesus with his sandals

Scene 2
An uninvited prostitte barges in a dinner party
A party held at a very religious Pharasee House. A great sinner anointed Jesus feet with expensive oil and kissed them weeping, even tho unworthy and Jesus allowed her to, It's a party stopper when Jesus tells the prostitute her sins are forgiven by her faith. Guests gasp! How dare he say that?

Scene 3
The Last Supper, a Passover meal before Jesus is arrested
Jesus the most worthy by light years wraps himself in a towel washed his apostle's feet himself at the last supper The high dwelling with the low, making a way home to God serving them first, even with his life, so they can serve God, glorifying God, acceptably.
Click to expand...
Jesus was the most kind and gentle soul, when he became human, and he sacrificed himself for people full of sin. I am a pagan polytheist, but I can't deny Jesus. Jesus was selfless.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
syo said:
Jesus was the most kind and gentle soul, when he became human, and he sacrificed himself for people full of sin. I am a pagan polytheist, but I can't deny Jesus. Jesus was selfless.
Click to expand...
Lots of people are/were; people better documented than this "Jesus."
 
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