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Featured Works or Grace

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Acer21, Oct 21, 2018.

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  1. Baptism

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
  2. Faith in Jesus is sufficient

    4 vote(s)
    30.8%
  3. Faith plus Works

    1 vote(s)
    7.7%
  4. Must join a Church or Organization

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Must be "better" than before

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Must be a "good person"

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Evangelism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. other

    9 vote(s)
    69.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    James and everyone in the gospel and the prophets agree with each other that faith is not just saying the words: I trust you god. Its a relationship. You literaly act in your trust. Every person who god favored did it. They served and obeyed god.

    James makes sense that faith without works is dead. Its not a biblical thing to sit and tell yourself you have faith without needing to do anything to support your conviction. That sounds like personal preference.

    I honestly dont see a balance, though. Its one. When you serve, you let god act because you have faith the works he does through you are righteous works and not from self. But you cant let him work through you without faith.

    They seesaw each other. Salvation is when you let god work through you by your faith and his works.
     
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  2. LiveByFaithNotSight

    LiveByFaithNotSight The Art Of Conversing

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    I agree. I dont know were we disagree on this point in particular.
     
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  3. LiveByFaithNotSight

    LiveByFaithNotSight The Art Of Conversing

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    I only use the word balance because it is unbalanced to think that just saying you have faith but producing works of the flesh equals salvation or it's unbalanced to think that works of the law or Works in general can equal salvation. The balanced way is how you explained they're one in the same your faith will move you to do righteous works therefore proving your faith to be the kind of faith that means salvation
     
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  4. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Regarding James and Paul, both quote aspects of Abraham being righteous.

    Paul pointed out the Bible says Abraham became righteous by faith, believing in God's promise to provide Isaac

    James points out long after Isaac born and grew up was sacrificed that vindicated Abraham's faith form decades before and already declared righteous. His works vindicated the faith he had, they evidenced his faith as a living faith.

    Faith was the root. Works were the fruit.
     
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  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Exactly. I think it probably sounds better from a christian even though we pretty much said the same thing. Its not really complicated just we draw our own conclusions to make more sense of the faith in which we are convicted. If it is all word-for-word no one learns anything hence the unnecessary debate over scripture.
     
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  6. LiveByFaithNotSight

    LiveByFaithNotSight The Art Of Conversing

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    agreed
     
  7. LiveByFaithNotSight

    LiveByFaithNotSight The Art Of Conversing

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    I respect it
     
  8. Gulo

    Gulo Member

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    Strive to be decent to yourself as well as decent to others. Strive to find a balance in this.
     
  9. viole

    viole Ontological Naturalist
    Premium Member

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    Wow, hold your horses. What sacrificial death?

    You mean the weekend off He took during the Passover?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  10. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    First, I think you should understand what saved even means, from what would you be saved. Bible tells that the wage of sin is death. So, if you live in sin, you are judged to die. Now, Jesus came to declare forgiveness, which means that sin is forgiven and you can avoid the judgment, and now repent and do not continue in sin.

    That forgiveness is freely offered. And actually, Jesus gave the right to forgive for his disciples (John 20:23). So, I can forgive your sins right now. You don’t have to do anything. However, the forgiveness is not useful, if you continue in sin. That is why Jesus taught that people should be born anew, become righteous. Eternal life is for righteous. If after forgiveness you don’t become righteous, the forgiveness was not useful.

    This is why the answer is, you don’t need to do anything to be saved. But to get eternal life, you must be righteous.

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
    Mat. 25:46


    For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Romans 6:23

    "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
    Hebrews 8:10-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)
     
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