Works and Faith

[jonny]

Hi Razberry,

Something I've always been curious about. Do Baptists believe that baptism is a necessary ordinace for salvation? If no, what is the purpose of baptism?

Is baptism put into the category of faith or works?

 

[Aqualung]

The baptist church I went to held that baptism was just an outward sign of their commitment to christ. Some of the baptisms I saw were just people who had been baptised in the past but wanted to show everyone that they were coming back to christ. I don't know what the other baptist denominations think, though.

 

[Katzpur]

Just one Southern Baptist's two cents --We believe one is saved by grace through faith, not by works.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

However, once we become believers, we belong to God, as His children. He commands that we do good works, for His pleasure and His glory.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I've heard people say, "If you don't have to do good works to get to heaven, then why would you? You're secure so why bother?" The answer--because I love God. I don't believe I can do anything good enough to earn my way into heaven though. What price would be enough for Christ's sacrifice? Jesus paid a ransom for me. I am bought and paid for. He owns me. I am His servant. He wants me to do good works and I want to be conformed to be more and more like Him everyday, so I do my best to serve Him.
I can assure you, Southern Baptists aren't "anti-good works."

Now, if I do choose to turn rebellious and intentionally sin against God and not worry about good works (and I have in the past, believe me), since I am God's child, He won't let me get by with it. He is my Father who loves me and He won't ignore my actions, good or bad. There are consequences to pay for rebelliousness. I still pay the consequences for my rebel period to this day. But I also learned from my mistakes and it's brought me much closer to God.

When I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior I became a new creature in Christ, with a new nature, however, I still had my old nature to contend with as well. Satan is constantly trying to trip a new Christian up too, to shake their faith. It's not an easy path to follow, but what path is? I know in my heart it's the right path. The only one that's ever made sense for me anyway.

I believe Lutheran's have similar beliefs as well. I think they branched off from the Catholic church because Martin Luther believed we were saved by grace alone and the Catholic's believe we are saved by works (I think). I'm sure you could google "Lutheran beliefs" or "Southern Baptist's beliefs" to learn more.

Hi there, Razberry.

Let's see how long a Mormon and a Southern Baptist can have a conversation without getting into a Knockout !

It may surprise you to know that I thought your post was excellent!

To me, it's a cyclical kind of thing. We are saved by grace, but our response to the grace Christ has offered us demonstrates the sincerety of our faith in Him. Like you said, there is a point at which every believing Christian becomes "a new creature in Christ." At that point, our love for Him is so deep that we experience a change of heart. We have a strong, real desire to obey His commandments. But Satan never, ever stops trying to tempt us to disobey. Occasionally he succeeds. When this happens, we have to step back and take a look at ourselves. We need to recognize that we have sinned (yet again!). We need to feel remorse for our sins and then resolve to do better in the future. God accepts our repentence once we have entered into a covenant relationship with Him, and will continue to forgive us as long as we continue to repent when we need to. If, however, we were to fail to feel remorse when we sin, and were to allow Satan to continue to succeed in tempting us, without making any effort whatsoever to rebuke him, we would in effect be telling our Savior that our initial commitment was not really sincere. In this case, His grace would fail to be operative in our lives.

So, what are your thoughts about the LDS position?

Kathryn

 

[RAZBERRY]

Hi there, Razberry.

Let's see how long a Mormon and a Southern Baptist can have a conversation without getting into a Knockout !

It may surprise you to know that I thought your post was excellent!

To me, it's a cyclical kind of thing. We are saved by grace, but our response to the grace Christ has offered us demonstrates the sincerety of our faith in Him. Like you said, there is a point at which every believing Christian becomes "a new creature in Christ." At that point, our love for Him is so deep that we experience a change of heart. We have a strong, real desire to obey His commandments. But Satan never, ever stops trying to tempt us to disobey. Occasionally he succeeds. When this happens, we have to step back and take a look at ourselves. We need to recognize that we have sinned (yet again!). We need to feel remorse for our sins and then resolve to do better in the future. God accepts our repentence once we have entered into a covenant relationship with Him, and will continue to forgive us as long as we continue to repent when we need to. If, however, we were to fail to feel remorse when we sin, and were to allow Satan to continue to succeed in tempting us, without making any effort whatsoever to rebuke him, we would in effect be telling our Savior that our initial commitment was not really sincere. In this case, His grace would fail to be operative in our lives.

So, what are your thoughts about the LDS position?

Kathryn

Hi Kathryn, Lol. How about I simply state my beliefs without a boxing match? I'm not much of a fighter so I won’t mind a bit if you don’t agree with me. I was raised in a church with similar beliefs as LDS apparently (Nazarene). This sort of surprised me. I don't know anything whatsoever about LDS except what you just explained.

I think, since God is omniscient, He always knew every single sin I would ever commit, thus knowing this when He saved me, yet He still loved me enough to save me. I’m not saying we have this easy ticket into heaven by simply believing with our minds Jesus is the Savior. I don’t think one can go before God and say, “I know I’m a sinner, and I accept your Son as my Lord and Savior, but I really don’t want to repent so I’ll just take Your gift of salvation and continue in sin.“ As far as sincerity, God knows our hearts, right? If we came to Him with that kind of heart, we wouldn’t be accepting Jesus as Lord since we didn’t repent, thus keeping this carnal life as our lord.

Satan is attacking every Christian daily. The last thing he wants is for us to lead others to Christ. From my own personal experience, Satan waged an all out war against me from the get go, constantly telling me I wasn’t good enough (and I’m not), and trying to get me to give up trying to live righteously because I kept falling. I was always worried about my security because I would get mad and say things I regretted, or I’d have a thought that was completely unrighteous, etc, etc. (I was young and immature in Christ, as all new Christians are). I finally came to the realization that I can’t fight satan alone. I feel it takes a vigilant prayer life, asking for God’s intercession daily, to defeat satan’s lies.

Eph 6:11-18 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

I think it’s impossible for a Christian to not feel remorse if he/she sins against God. God won’t allow that from His children. I can only go by my own experiences, and I know God never left me. The Holy Spirit was always there. Do we disown our children when they rebel? God loves us even more than we love our kids.

Joh 10:28-29 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I believe “no one” means just that, and not even satan can snatch one of God’s own. I know God was very merciful and slow to anger with me, but I also know there were definite consequences for my sins (I live with those consequences daily). I wish I could turn back the clock and not disobey Him (instead of becoming impatient and selfish, from listening to satan), as I know my life would have been so much better. I have missed many blessings. I have lost rewards. I failed my Lord and wasted time not serving Him. I can’t dwell on my mistakes though. I have come to learn to trust Him. I believe the process of being conformed to the likeness of Christ is ‘sanctification.’ I am being conformed to be more Christ-like everyday by the power of God. I can’t prove to anyone that God didn’t leave me through my rebellion. There are many who've experienced what I have though, and learned from it too. There’s a price to pay for rebellion. I learned the hard way that God knows what’s best for me, even though it sometimes doesn’t seem that way. But, I am human and only God sees the big pic.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

All things have worked together for me, even though I have those consequences to deal with. I am very, very blessed. I am also aware that I can’t so much as draw my next breath unless God so allows it. He controls my life and that’s exactly the way I want it. I can say I’m thankful for my lessons learned. It’s been a hard row to hoe, but maybe that’s exactly what it took to get me to where I am. I so long to one day hear the words, “Well done Thy good and faithful servant”, for His glory only.

Anyhoo, I feel that by saying I have some kind of power over my own salvation is taking the glory from Christ. I can’t do that. I am saved by His grace alone. I will serve Him because He is my Lord and I love Him.

 

[RAZBERRY]

Hi Razberry,

Something I've always been curious about. Do Baptists believe that baptism is a necessary ordinace for salvation? If no, what is the purpose of baptism?

Is baptism put into the category of faith or works?

Hi Jonny, Aqualung is right. We believe it shows our commitment to Christ. We don't believe the act of baptism has any "saving" qualities. Similar to communion. Christ said, "This do in remembrance of me." So we do just that. I do believe these both can be very spiritual experiences though, but I don't believe they are required for salvation. I believe the only way to heaven is thru Christ, who said, "No man cometh unto the Father but by Me."

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Are works nescassary to get to heaven? What work did the thief on the cross do? Can you have faith and then not have any works of righteousness? Faith without works is a dead faith. Having Christ accept you means that there is a life changing experience that causes the believer to do those things that would be incumbent upon one who confesses to be Christlike. Just saying that you believe in Christ without Him accepting you is an empty profession that will cause no life-changing event and life will go on without any works that are a result of gaining a new life in Christ.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Where your heart is, there your treasure is also.

Some want to work their way to heaven. They think it possible to do enough good works to merit salvation. The impetus of their works is a desire for fire insurance.

Some want to use their "faith" as an excuse to be lazy. I believe my brakes work, but if I don't USE them, I will still crash, regardless of my beliefs.

Very few seem to realise that true faith COMPELS you to serve others. He who has been forgiven much, loves much.

 

[Scuba Pete]

BTW, as for Baptism, Jesus said he knows that we love him when we do what he tells us to do. Faith compels us to obey, but if you don't have faith, you won't be baptised.

 

[jonny]

I have another question. Could someone define "works" for me? It seems like a very vague term.

Does works refer to keeping the commandments?
Does works refer to making and keeping covenants?
What other things could the term "works" refer to? How is doing what Christ asked of us "working our way to heaven?"

I'm especially interested in hearing the definition from those who are against the idea that we will be judged based on our faith and what we do with this faith ("works").

 

[Scuba Pete]

What other things could the term "works" refer to? How is doing what Christ asked of us "working our way to heaven?"

Jonny, it's not WHAT you do as much as it is WHY you do it. The entire NT was a paradigm shift from codification of what we needed to do to getting our HEARTS right with God. It's not that God changed, but that we had matured enough to go to the next step: Freedom!

Most people have the wrong idea about grace. They think it's just about getting something for free. It's actually about becoming like God. As Grace increases, so does our Godliness. As we become more and more Godly, we DO more and more. Our love gets some teeth and we stop being talkers and become doers. Let me know if you want scriptures to back each of these up.

 

[jonny]

Jonny, it's not WHAT you do as much as it is WHY you do it. The entire NT was a paradigm shift from codification of what we needed to do to getting our HEARTS right with God. It's not that God changed, but that we had matured enough to go to the next step: Freedom!

Most people have the wrong idea about grace. They think it's just about getting something for free. It's actually about becoming like God. As Grace increases, so does our Godliness. As we become more and more Godly, we DO more and more. Our love gets some teeth and we stop being talkers and become doers. Let me know if you want scriptures to back each of these up.

Great post. I understand your position. The phrase "becoming like God" indicates to me that some action is required on our part. For me, faith is more than just an admission that you need Christ. As our faith increases, our heart changes and we become more like God. I believe that we will be judged according to our works, not because our works are what save us, but because our works are a reflection of our faith and commitment to Christ. I try to keep the commandments because I am trying to be like Christ and follow his example.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I have another question. Could someone define "works" for me? It seems like a very vague term.

Works in the general sense as it relates to salvation or condemnation refers back to the works of the law (Old Testament variety) ie, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galations 2:16

This clearly defines what the works refer to as well as showing that works will not justify anyone in the eyes of God. All the law did was point out that we were sinners. If there was no sin there would be no law. If there was no law there would also be no definition of sin (say there was no speed limit then there would be no point at which you were exceeding a limit or breaking a law). Never the less when there was no law there was still sin in the world (Romams 5:13).

 

[jonny]

Works in the general sense as it relates to salvation or condemnation refers back to the works of the law (Old Testament variety) ie, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galations 2:16

This clearly defines what the works refer to as well as showing that works will not justify anyone in the eyes of God. All the law did was point out that we were sinners. If there was no sin there would be no law. If there was no law there would also be no definition of sin (say there was no speed limit then there would be no point at which you were exceeding a limit or breaking a law). Never the less when there was no law there was still sin in the world (Romams 5:13).

Are you referring to the Law of Moses? If you are I can't understand the postition of people who are against my position. It has nothing to do with the Law of Moses.

 

[Katzpur]

Hi Kathryn, Lol. How about I simply state my beliefs without a boxing match? I'm not much of a fighter so I won’t mind a bit if you don’t agree with me.

That's nice to hear. I much prefer not to fight myself. Mormons and Baptists just seem to have a way of getting on each other's nerves. I'm glad to hear that, like me, you seem to welcome a respectful discussion.

I think it’s impossible for a Christian to not feel remorse if he/she sins against God. God won’t allow that from His children. I can only go by my own experiences, and I know God never left me. The Holy Spirit was always there. Do we disown our children when they rebel? God loves us even more than we love our kids.

This raises a question in my mind. It kind of centers around the definition of the word "Christian." It sounds to me as if you see a Christian as someone who has been "born again," and believe that once this event has taken place, it is impossible for things to change. I follow what you are saying, and to a point, I agree. I agree that God loves us more than we can possibly love our own children, and that just as a truly loving parent will never disown his children, God will never disown His children. But, it is possible, of course, for a child to turn his back on a parent and no matter how much the parent would like to salvage what may once have been a wonderful relationship, if the child refuses to acknowledge his parent's love, the bond has been broken. This is not the parent's fault, but the result is essentially the same. The parent cannot force a once loving child to change his ways. And if the child refuses his inheritance, he loses it through his own choice.

John 10:28-29

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I believe “no one” means just that, and not even satan can snatch one of God’s own. I know God was very merciful and slow to anger with me, but I also know there were definite consequences for my sins (I live with those consequences daily). I wish I could turn back the clock and not disobey Him (instead of becoming impatient and selfish, from listening to satan), as I know my life would have been so much better. I have missed many blessings. I have lost rewards. I failed my Lord and wasted time not serving Him. I can’t dwell on my mistakes though. I have come to learn to trust Him. I believe the process of being conformed to the likeness of Christ is ‘sanctification.’ I am being conformed to be more Christ-like everyday by the power of God. I can’t prove to anyone that God didn’t leave me through my rebellion. There are many who've experienced what I have though, and learned from it too. There’s a price to pay for rebellion. I learned the hard way that God knows what’s best for me, even though it sometimes doesn’t seem that way. But, I am human and only God sees the big pic.

You seem to be teaching the doctrine of "once saved, always saved." I don't accept this doctrine because of what I said in my previous paragraph. Perhaps you are saying that if a person turns from Christ after an initial conversion (after having been born again), he was never really born again in the first place. It was all a sham. He doesn't lose his salvation because he was never saved in the first place. Is that what you're saying? I believe that we have a promise of salvation from the moment we enter into a covenant relationship with our Savior, but this promise is contingent upon our remaining faithful. Hence, the scipture which states, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved."

Anyhoo, I feel that by saying I have some kind of power over my own salvation is taking the glory from Christ. I can’t do that. I am saved by His grace alone. I will serve Him because He is my Lord and I love Him.

I hear this a lot, and I don't understand it. How does believing that our faith must be a living faith (as evidenced by our works) taking the glory from Christ? If we can't possibly be saved apart from His grace, how does a belief that we must be faithful to Him (in addition to having faith in Him) devalue His sacrifice?

Kathryn

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Are you referring to the Law of Moses? If you are I can't understand the postition of people who are against my position. It has nothing to do with the Law of Moses.

Yes, works, pre-salvation, refers to the Mosaic law, Scripturally speaking.

Post salvation works are something that we will be judged for as well. These works are in no way related to one's salvation

1 Cor 3:12-15:

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

This is refered to as the Bema Seat Judgement.

 

[joeboonda]

Just one Southern Baptist's two cents --We believe one is saved by grace through faith, not by works.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

However, once we become believers, we belong to God, as His children. He commands that we do good works, for His pleasure and His glory.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

I've heard people say, "If you don't have to do good works to get to heaven, then why would you? You're secure so why bother?" The answer--because I love God. I don't believe I can do anything good enough to earn my way into heaven though. What price would be enough for Christ's sacrifice? Jesus paid a ransom for me. I am bought and paid for. He owns me. I am His servant. He wants me to do good works and I want to be conformed to be more and more like Him everyday, so I do my best to serve Him.
I can assure you, Southern Baptists aren't "anti-good works."

Now, if I do choose to turn rebellious and intentionally sin against God and not worry about good works (and I have in the past, believe me), since I am God's child, He won't let me get by with it. He is my Father who loves me and He won't ignore my actions, good or bad. There are consequences to pay for rebelliousness. I still pay the consequences for my rebel period to this day. But I also learned from my mistakes and it's brought me much closer to God.

When I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior I became a new creature in Christ, with a new nature, however, I still had my old nature to contend with as well. Satan is constantly trying to trip a new Christian up too, to shake their faith. It's not an easy path to follow, but what path is? I know in my heart it's the right path. The only one that's ever made sense for me anyway.

I believe Lutheran's have similar beliefs as well. I think they branched off from the Catholic church because Martin Luther believed we were saved by grace alone and the Catholic's believe we are saved by works (I think). I'm sure you could google "Lutheran beliefs" or "Southern Baptist's beliefs" to learn more.

EXACTLY, WELL SAID.

 

[joeboonda]

Hi Kathryn, Lol. How about I simply state my beliefs without a boxing match? I'm not much of a fighter so I won’t mind a bit if you don’t agree with me. I was raised in a church with similar beliefs as LDS apparently (Nazarene). This sort of surprised me. I don't know anything whatsoever about LDS except what you just explained.

I think, since God is omniscient, He always knew every single sin I would ever commit, thus knowing this when He saved me, yet He still loved me enough to save me. I’m not saying we have this easy ticket into heaven by simply believing with our minds Jesus is the Savior. I don’t think one can go before God and say, “I know I’m a sinner, and I accept your Son as my Lord and Savior, but I really don’t want to repent so I’ll just take Your gift of salvation and continue in sin.“ As far as sincerity, God knows our hearts, right? If we came to Him with that kind of heart, we wouldn’t be accepting Jesus as Lord since we didn’t repent, thus keeping this carnal life as our lord.

Satan is attacking every Christian daily. The last thing he wants is for us to lead others to Christ. From my own personal experience, Satan waged an all out war against me from the get go, constantly telling me I wasn’t good enough (and I’m not), and trying to get me to give up trying to live righteously because I kept falling. I was always worried about my security because I would get mad and say things I regretted, or I’d have a thought that was completely unrighteous, etc, etc. (I was young and immature in Christ, as all new Christians are). I finally came to the realization that I can’t fight satan alone. I feel it takes a vigilant prayer life, asking for God’s intercession daily, to defeat satan’s lies.

Eph 6:11-18 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

I think it’s impossible for a Christian to not feel remorse if he/she sins against God. God won’t allow that from His children. I can only go by my own experiences, and I know God never left me. The Holy Spirit was always there. Do we disown our children when they rebel? God loves us even more than we love our kids.

Joh 10:28-29 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I believe “no one” means just that, and not even satan can snatch one of God’s own. I know God was very merciful and slow to anger with me, but I also know there were definite consequences for my sins (I live with those consequences daily). I wish I could turn back the clock and not disobey Him (instead of becoming impatient and selfish, from listening to satan), as I know my life would have been so much better. I have missed many blessings. I have lost rewards. I failed my Lord and wasted time not serving Him. I can’t dwell on my mistakes though. I have come to learn to trust Him. I believe the process of being conformed to the likeness of Christ is ‘sanctification.’ I am being conformed to be more Christ-like everyday by the power of God. I can’t prove to anyone that God didn’t leave me through my rebellion. There are many who've experienced what I have though, and learned from it too. There’s a price to pay for rebellion. I learned the hard way that God knows what’s best for me, even though it sometimes doesn’t seem that way. But, I am human and only God sees the big pic.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

All things have worked together for me, even though I have those consequences to deal with. I am very, very blessed. I am also aware that I can’t so much as draw my next breath unless God so allows it. He controls my life and that’s exactly the way I want it. I can say I’m thankful for my lessons learned. It’s been a hard row to hoe, but maybe that’s exactly what it took to get me to where I am. I so long to one day hear the words, “Well done Thy good and faithful servant”, for His glory only.

Anyhoo, I feel that by saying I have some kind of power over my own salvation is taking the glory from Christ. I can’t do that. I am saved by His grace alone. I will serve Him because He is my Lord and I love Him.

Again, well put.

 

[joeboonda]

Hi Jonny, Aqualung is right. We believe it shows our commitment to Christ. We don't believe the act of baptism has any "saving" qualities. Similar to communion. Christ said, "This do in remembrance of me." So we do just that. I do believe these both can be very spiritual experiences though, but I don't believe they are required for salvation. I believe the only way to heaven is thru Christ, who said, "No man cometh unto the Father but by Me."

Right on again Razberry, good job.

 

[joeboonda]

Works in the general sense as it relates to salvation or condemnation refers back to the works of the law (Old Testament variety) ie, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galations 2:16

This clearly defines what the works refer to as well as showing that works will not justify anyone in the eyes of God. All the law did was point out that we were sinners. If there was no sin there would be no law. If there was no law there would also be no definition of sin (say there was no speed limit then there would be no point at which you were exceeding a limit or breaking a law). Never the less when there was no law there was still sin in the world (Romams 5:13).

Galatians 2:16, excellent passsage. good point.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I can't help much but to throw 2cents in.

If being a good person but not following a particular religion means i don't get to go to whichever afterlife turns out to be true (tho i don't even believe such a thing exists), i would rather burn in hell.

This statement doesn't make much sense to me. Are you saying that you'd rather burn in hell than follow a religion which does not require you to be a good person?

If a religion does not require you to be a good person, I wonder what their teachings concerning the afterlife are like.

Seriously, you'd rather burn in hell if it were real? Sheesh