1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Works and Faith

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by Buttons*, Dec 18, 2005.

  1. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    16,111
    Ratings:
    +1,263
    I dont know everything... infact I hardly know anything!

    I heard, (gossip sucks) that some sects of Christianity only believe that one can attain heaven through faith alone. I heard that others believe the only way to get to heaven is works. (to this day no one has specified what "works" means, so im getting frustrated hearing that phrase) I was wondering which sects believe in Faith alone, or Works alone, or which faiths enforce both, perhaps none?

    I'm going to assume "works" means charity, evangalism, caring acts. I also wonder why its so bad to do works for faith? I mean... you can have faith, and you can do works, but if they're all for the glory of the one you believe in, why is it bad either way? The bible has MANY examples of faith being the most important thing, and works being the most important. (needless to say the bible, and other books, is full of contradiction on those two subjects) So i'd like to have yall's opinion... do share *smiles*
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Pardus

    Pardus Proud to be a Sinner.

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,386
    Ratings:
    +117
    I can't help much but to throw 2cents in.

    If being a good person but not following a particular religion means i don't get to go to whichever afterlife turns out to be true (tho i don't even believe such a thing exists), i would rather burn in hell.
     
  3. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,366
    Ratings:
    +1,008
    Faith, to me is the important thing. It's what's in your heart. Some religions believe it's works, but work without faith is meaningless.
     
  4. A. Leaf

    A. Leaf Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    To Deny God and the Holy spirit is to deny your Intelligence and that of life. People have unfortunately got lost through the centurys due to the satanic form of manipulation. Greed has overtaking the realisation of existence and its beauty for the good majority.No ones fault except a few naughty individuals. But their are good people (Of God)in high places working hard to liberate the Intelligence of life from its suffering as we communicate through this forum with each other
     
  5. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    16,111
    Ratings:
    +1,263
    I hear that all the time, pretend im stupid (not hard to imagine, eh?) and explain "works" to me, as well as what having faith entails... if you would be so kind
     
  6. A. Leaf

    A. Leaf Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    From a personal point of view you cant have total love without faith, then works comes naturaly.
     
  7. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,675
    Ratings:
    +2,658
    Much like you,
    :D

    The first time I looked properly at the Bible was last september (2004) when i joined the forum. Having a headful of sawdust, what goes in just gets bogged down in the dust.........

    As a "Follower of Christ" as I style myself (because I am not totally committed to all Christian beliefs, and some of the judgemental beliefs about certain groups of people make me feel like distancing myself from the religion), I go on "Faith" pretty much as the impetus to help me do good deeds (or works, if you like).

    Works, deeds; I am sure the two are the same. Live as much like you think Christ would have (and you won't get witin a mile, none of us can, because we are only human), and with your faith to keep you warm, to me, that is all you need.....well, nearly all.........;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. jeffrey

    jeffrey †ßig Dog†

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    5,366
    Ratings:
    +1,008
    ^What he said! :D
     
  9. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    16,111
    Ratings:
    +1,263
    I heard that Mormons believe that only works can save them. Of course this is an ignorant statement, but i'd still like to have the truth about the whole thing...

    Why would one do works if not inspired by faith though?
     
  10. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    7,140
    Ratings:
    +672
    I would say faith is the most important, however, when you have faith the natural progression is to do works. Indeed, we believe baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are essential for salvation. Christ set the perfect example by being baptized himself and he taught that we should do all that we saw him do.

    There is also scriptural reference that says faith if it hath not works is dead.

    In the end, however, we all fall short and it is only through the grace of Christ that we will be made pure so that we may live with the Father in Heaven again.
     
  11. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    16,111
    Ratings:
    +1,263
    ^ That's what i've thought too... but again, i go to a school where Mormons are a "cult", and where most people are pretty ignorant of anyone but themselves. (Thank god(s) for the forum!)
     
  12. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    7,140
    Ratings:
    +672
    Yeah, I was labeled a cult-member in high-school. :rolleyes:
    They also shoved all sorts of anti-Mormon literature in my face and it was complete non-sense and lies.

    There was a girl interested in Mormon teachings. She would talk to me everyday about it. Unfortunetly, she asked her "Christian" youth group leader about Mormons and she unloaded a bunch of lies. The girl came to me with the lies, but no matter how hard I tried, she was no longer interested in learning about Mormon teachings. Example of one of the lies: The "Christian" youth was taught by there Church that women who go to Mormon temples must have a sexual experience with their local bishop in the temple.:rolleyes:
     
  13. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,260
    Ratings:
    +639
    Don't they go hand in hand though? I've never been able to figure out exactly what "works" Christians have a problem with doing. Mormons believe that it is only through the grace of Jesus Christ that we are saved, but we also believe that we need to make an effort to keep the commandments. Somehow this is blasphemous to some Christians.
     
  14. Bishka

    Bishka Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    18,945
    Ratings:
    +1,494
    I don't quite remember where the scripture is in the Bible, but it says, "Faith without works is dead.""
     
  15. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    29,668
    Ratings:
    +5,546
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    The condition of our hearts is of utmost importance to God, but just as works without faith is meaningless, faith without works is dead. I believe it was C.S. Lewis who spoke of faith and works as being like the blades of a pair of scissors. They need to be used together to be effective. One without the other is useless.
     
  16. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    29,668
    Ratings:
    +5,546
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    It is impossible to have a true faith in Christ without being faithful to Christ. The two are integrally related. Being faithful to Christ is obeying His commandments.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. JesusIsTheWay

    JesusIsTheWay Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    Ratings:
    +5
    James 2:14-26: What good is it, my bothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such a faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

    But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."

    Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that - and shudder.

    You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the alter? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

    In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostiture considered righteous for what she when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

    Ephesians 2:8-10: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

    1 Thessalonians 1:3: We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

    John 15:1-2: "I am the true vine, and My Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit He prunes so that it will be even more fruitful."

    John 14:15: "If you love Me, you will obey what I command."

    Romans 3:31: Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

    Romans 14:23: ... Everything that does not come from faith is sin.

    2 Thessalonians 1:11: ... Every act prompted by your faith.

    1 Timothy 1:4 ... These prompote controveries rather than God's work - which is by faith.

    Galatians 3:3: Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

    I'm going to stop here and let the Scriptures speak for themselves... If you want me to continue just let me know.

    - David -
     
  18. jonny

    jonny Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,260
    Ratings:
    +639
    You don't seem to understand that the fact that it requires some effort on our part does not mean that it only requires effort on our part.

    How can I put this simply. Mormons believe that it is only through the grace of Jesus Christ that we can become saved. That doesn't mean I can sign my name in the back of a bible to profess that I have faith in Jesus Christ and then do as I please for the rest of my life.
     
  19. RAZBERRY

    RAZBERRY Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    48
    Ratings:
    +5
    Just one Southern Baptist's two cents :D --We believe one is saved by grace through faith, not by works.
    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    However, once we become believers, we belong to God, as His children. He commands that we do good works, for His pleasure and His glory.

    Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    I've heard people say, "If you don't have to do good works to get to heaven, then why would you? You're secure so why bother?" The answer--because I love God. I don't believe I can do anything good enough to earn my way into heaven though. What price would be enough for Christ's sacrifice? Jesus paid a ransom for me. I am bought and paid for. He owns me. I am His servant. He wants me to do good works and I want to be conformed to be more and more like Him everyday, so I do my best to serve Him.
    I can assure you, Southern Baptists aren't "anti-good works.";)

    Now, if I do choose to turn rebellious and intentionally sin against God and not worry about good works (and I have in the past, believe me), since I am God's child, He won't let me get by with it. He is my Father who loves me and He won't ignore my actions, good or bad. There are consequences to pay for rebelliousness. I still pay the consequences for my rebel period to this day. But I also learned from my mistakes and it's brought me much closer to God.

    When I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior I became a new creature in Christ, with a new nature, however, I still had my old nature to contend with as well. Satan is constantly trying to trip a new Christian up too, to shake their faith. It's not an easy path to follow, but what path is? I know in my heart it's the right path. The only one that's ever made sense for me anyway.

    I believe Lutheran's have similar beliefs as well. I think they branched off from the Catholic church because Martin Luther believed we were saved by grace alone and the Catholic's believe we are saved by works (I think). I'm sure you could google "Lutheran beliefs" or "Southern Baptist's beliefs" to learn more. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Abram

    Abram Abraham

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    546
    Ratings:
    +72
    The only way anyone will ever know you love them is by action.(works) Anyone can say the love you but if they never show you (hug, kiss, handshake, phonecall) you won't believe them. Words are nothing, faith means nothing unless you show God you love him by actions. "Show me your faith" show it to me, be doing something that lets me know your at least trying, that includes failing.

    Now is there good, bad, and pointless works?
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...