Working while sick

[Koldo]

Not potentially endanger other people or their kids? This is why we need paid sick leave at the federal level.
MIS-C and COVID-19: Uncommon but Serious Inflammatory Syndrome in Kids and Teens

At the cost of potentially endangering your own (and your family's) life by not earning enough money? It is complicated.

 

[Ashoka]

I hate to admit it, but when I had covid last September, I worked from home. Barely got any rest, because I just didn't have the PTO and couldn't afford it.

 

[SomeRandom]

I thought "technically" that sick pay was included in their hourly rate which is why casuals get more per hour. I don't really know just going on an assumption from things I've heard.

Yes. Typically casual employees receive a slightly higher hourly wage as “compensation” for not receiving sick and annual leave.
When I went to part time from casual, my hourly wage went down, but I gained sick, annual and personal leave in return.
Mind you this is working in Woolworths (for my US friends, that’s one of our major supermarket chains here.)
So it was pretty entry level job even

I think the thought process of this is basically that casual employees are kids still attending school and require flexibility in regards to their shifts. (And usually with extra limits on their working conditions due to their age.) Whereas part and full time employment are for adults who need stable employment. I know that’s not the reality, obviously. Just that that was likely the intent behind the decision for higher hour wages vs benefits

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I thought "technically" that sick pay was included in their hourly rate which is why casuals get more per hour. I don't really know just going on an assumption from things I've heard.

Kinda.

They don't get various employee benefits, and that's offset by a higher rate.
However that offset is calculated in a generic fashion. So person A works casually and 'normally' gets 20 hours a week. Person B works casually and 'normally' gets 8 hours a week. Unlike part-timers, where they get sick leave based on a pro-rated schedule, casuals are just paid extra instead.

TLDR; something 'unusual' like COVID will impact on casual staff to vastly different degrees.

 

[JustGeorge]

Hey, SW, question from ignorance on US working conditions.
Is there no minimum sick leave consideration?

In Australia there is for full or part time work, but not for casual (which can certainly be problematic in the way the OP is referring).

How does it work in the US?

(I'm sure it varies state to state, so maybe more 'What is federally mandated?')

In the US, you are not entitled to sick time. Whether or not you get sick time depends on your employer.

A person can clear their entire savings account in the event of an illness lasting that sticks around for a week or two.

I've had to go to work sick. Otherwise I couldn't pay the rent. Or buy food.

Even during Covid, I've known people during this who had to work sick, otherwise they faced homelessness and hunger. What do you do when you have no family to fall back on? What do you do if you have mouths to feed? Most felt terrible about it, but didn't know what else to do.

At my husband's job, one guy had a positive Covid test, and the employer made him go in anyways. Eventually, he near fainted on the job; she let him go home then.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is it wrong for someone with COVID symptoms to go into work, let’s say as a dishwasher or cook, if they need the money?

Let me put it this way:

Would you be disclosing the fact that you're sick to everyone you could potentially infect, or would you be hiding your illness?

Edit: also, what mitigation or protection measures would you be taking to mitigate the risk you'd be posing to others?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Should have blamed your boss for not handling the situation properly.

We did. He just blamed it on corporate policy and the head executive and said basically everything was her fault. But we found out years later, when he was sacked for theft, he was to blame for almost all of it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In the US, you are not entitled to sick time. Whether or not you get sick time depends on your employer.

A person can clear their entire savings account in the event of an illness lasting that sticks around for a week or two.

I've had to go to work sick. Otherwise I couldn't pay the rent. Or buy food.

Even during Covid, I've known people during this who had to work sick, otherwise they faced homelessness and hunger. What do you do when you have no family to fall back on? What do you do if you have mouths to feed? Most felt terrible about it, but didn't know what else to do.

At my husband's job, one guy had a positive Covid test, and the employer made him go in anyways. Eventually, he near fainted on the job; she let him go home then.

At some point, I think it's worth asking how far these cavalier attitudes toward COVID have to go before the employer is violating their duty under OSHA and the like to provide a safe workplace and mitigate against hazards.

 

[JustGeorge]

At some point, I think it's worth asking how far these cavalier attitudes toward COVID have to go before the employer is violating their duty under OSHA and the like to provide a safe workplace and mitigate against hazards.

I'm certain if the employee had contacted the proper office and presented the texted demands to go to work she had sent(he had even taken a video of himself taking the Covid test and it responding positive), the owner would have been in doo-doo up past her eyeballs.

However, she tends to hire family, friends, and drug addicts(usually a combination of those titles) that, for whatever reason, don't have the self esteem to fight back and demand to be treated decently.

I think a lot of people out there are terrified of getting fired.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think a lot of people out there are terrified of getting fired.

True. Especially in jurisdictions that don't need a reason to fire you.

Threats of firing only work for so long, though. Once they follow through with the threat, a fired employee with a legitimate beef is free to report their former employer if they want.

 

[JustGeorge]

True. Especially in jurisdictions that don't need a reason to fire you.

Threats of firing only work for so long, though. Once they follow through with the threat, a fired employee with a legitimate beef is free to report their former employer if they want.

Our state is one of those states an employer can get away with canning you for pretty much any reason they want.

I'll be honest, I almost never see that happen. However, I think sometimes employers intimidate employees with it.

Another factor that keeps fired employees from reporting such is the need for a reference at the next job. Complaining about your previous employer when asked why you departed a past workplace in these parts is a good way to guarantee you won't get the job.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you're not contagious, you can go to work guilt-free.

Typically, COVID is contagious for 5 to 10 days.

For severe cases or immunocompromised people, it can be 20 days or more.

 

[Viker]

If it is something contagious, no. If it is something that could put one in further peril, no.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Unfortunately in America sometimes you have to. I will go into work if I am able to. I'm mindful to keep my hands clean after I blow my knows, sneezing into my shirt, etc. If I cough a lot though I'll stay home.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In this age of COVID, the government and health departments and the such say to stay home from work if you are sick. But what if you can’t afford to call out and are sick? What do you do?

Is it wrong for someone with COVID symptoms to go into work, let’s say as a dishwasher or cook, if they need the money?

I remember a conversation I had with a boss before COVID. He was complaining to me how people would call out sick, grumbling that he had to come into work sick all the time.

This question is on my mind because I wanted to call out from work today because I forgot to take my anti manics last night but I don’t think I can financially afford to do so. But I know I’ve gone into work sick before, as well as many other poorer Americans.

I know people will say that the government should step in or the business should provide for their sick employees, but this simply isn’t the case or possible in all situations.

This is an excellent example of the fundamental dichotomy of human nature -- that we are a social species, but with the capacity to default. A bee, defending the hive, must sting even though it means her own death -- she cannot choose to do otherwise. Bees are eusocial, but lacking in the brainpower to establish a personal identity and will.

Humans are also eusocial -- but we abound in the capacity to default. No matter how much we know what the "right thing to do" is, we are almost never compelled to do it, as the bee does.

So, as a social animal, you know that if you are sick, you have a very good chance of spreading your sickness to others, and if some of those others will end up going home to elderly or otherwise compromised family members, it is entirely possible that this could lead to unnecessary deaths.

Yet, as a social animal that can default, you have the capacity to value your own need for a full paycheck above the potential death (which you really don't think about in your calculations anyway), and will quite likely go to work anyway -- to satisfy your need at whatever (unseen) cost to other members of your social group.

This is what makes humans so interesting. And difficult. And dangerous. And unfathomable. And seemingly almost unnatural (which is why we may suppose we are just slightly below the angels).

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes if no risk posed to others.
No if significant risk of contagion.

Can you figure out a way to include vaccines and masks into your answer?

 

[Revoltingest]

Can you figure out a way to include vaccines and masks into your answer?

Yes...but it would be too much work.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've been ranting about this subject for 20 years now, pretty much once I started working and realized coworkers coming in sick make other people sick. I get people can't afford to call off. But there are others you have to think about, like your coworkers who probably will not appreciate the germ sharing.
But, it's also an issue above that. Employers really need to give paid sick days, if no other reason than simply to help protect workers who aren't sick.

And employers should be able to invoke them too. "Sam your going home, you are too sick" the problem is that "sick days" are often seen as extra vacation days in some jobs. A job should pay medical as well so that a person can go to a doctor and get a confirmation that he or she was ill. And as I said, an employer should not be afraid to use a sick day to send someone home.

 

[JustGeorge]

And employers should be able to invoke them too. "Sam your going home, you are too sick" the problem is that "sick days" are often seen as extra vacation days in some jobs. A job should pay medical as well so that a person can go to a doctor and get a confirmation that he or she was ill. And as I said, an employer should not be afraid to use a sick day to send someone home.

I remember trying to call in, and the employer saying I would need a doctor's excuse. I just gave up and went into work... I couldn't afford to go to the doctor...

 

[Subduction Zone]

I remember trying to call in, and the employer saying I would need a doctor's excuse. I just gave up and went into work... I couldn't afford to go to the doctor...

Which is wrong. Health care in the US is far behind that of other first world countries. You should not have to worry about paying a doctor for something like that.