Wonder what happened?

[Valor]

The whole thing is just sad...the discussion could have been effective...actually it SHOULD have been effective. I was learning a lot about Xem, (i put it in purple because certian things come to me in color) actually rather awed because i never tampered with it before...this was refreshing! I was learning, period....then "!!POOF!!" it was frozen...ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

[blackout]

There is NO REASON whatsoever that you cannot restart a thread about Xem in the proper place. General LHP would be FINE.

No one has "frozen" the conversation,
except the ones who refuse to (continue to) engage in it.

The topic of Xem was not "banned" from the forum.

 

[Sireal]

First of all, one does not have to be a member of the ToS to be a Setian.

Anyone can call themselves Setian and some even do. The term Setian in the ToS describes a state of Being within that construct-not outside of it. I use the term setian to describe many on this list here, if they (re)enter the Temple that will change for them and they Will recognize this change. In the same way the II* will not understand the III* until she is there. I could call myself the new Magus of Abrahadabra and alot of Thelemites would be ****** but what could they do? The ones I know would probably LTAO and say good luck and have fun with it! Magical titles are NOT bestowed on you or simply/lightly taken, you earn them by opening your psyche to the world of your own magic and become transformed by the information you take in from the experience of Self and Others and your Actions in full view of your peers and there are definite markers for these attainments that can only be seen/articulated by those who have achieved such states of Being. In the case of the Temple of Set, a great number of highly experienced Black Magicians exist to assist in that process with you. in the WoH you will seek long and hard to find such a body of experience and will most likely not find it or at very best a watered down version of it. For those who take titles w/o full knowledge of what they do, their road is often Self destructive, difficult and perilous and their students will suffer along with them.

One may even be critical (oh horror of horrors!) of the ToS and still be a Setian. Fortunately the Temple of Set does not onw the titles LHP or Setian.

No, we don't "own" them-but we sure as Hell give them Substance.

Secondly, Demogorogs was misrepresented in the post I linked to. He was not expelled from the ToS. I am sure a high ranking member of the ToS would have access to that information and could references it before posting something inaccurate that makes suggestions about a persons character. Even the admission that Demogorogs was not expelled included another possible slander about him threatening someone. This is the kind of personal attack that is not supposed to happen in the DIR. Demogorgos was discussing matters of magical philosophy and putting forward a critique of a particular organization and in response his character was attacked. That is actually neither discussion nor debate

From what I've read from Demogorgos posts-and I am familiar with him as a former Setian-he had it coming. Coming into our garden, trampling our flowers underfoot with his Order of the Jackal, stating the ToS is eclipsed by his very newly created Order with him as Magus- he wants working on and he will likely get it given what I've seen of his past Work and the hubris I see displayed here~"The Aeon of Set has succumbed and the Temple of Set is no longer a functional organization under the Aegis of the Prince of Darkness." Demogorgos~ :areyoucra saying that here! That is the unfortunate thing about such claims-they _will_ come into being with the integrity and power of the one calling them and if one lacks that integrity and does not have the experience and wisdom to manage the Word- it will destroy them. In this case I remain unconcerned, the ToS is not eclipsed by a re-utterance? of Xem and careless pilfering of Setian Philosophy- that's just sloppy magic, very unoriginal and from a former Setian-insulting.

Pride is a good thing and well warranted, on the LHP we create our Selves and need no god to worship or grovel before, however, a little humility will not kill one-Set is not Lord of the Limit for nothing. I think Xem has strong points and some very weak points in the long run, it does make for a fabulous weed eater though.....

Valor,
Xem is not something you can learn by reading about it. it has to be Seen, used and carefully observed. aa_nerut's post in the OoA thread on Xem is excellent and provides some solid advice on Xem. You read it then commented with a one liner-what have you gotten out of the dialogue on Xem thus far? Have you used the Word in your own Work? What do you think of its unfolding? How do you handle the power of its focus?

Dem. if you are out there, good luck with that Word. Better you than me.

 

[Valor]

There is NO REASON whatsoever that you cannot restart a thread about Xem in the proper place. General LHP would be FINE.

No one has "frozen" the conversation,
except the ones who refuse to (continue to) engage in it.

The topic of Xem was not "banned" from the forum.

Are you going to help explain it's properties?

Because i'm almost certain Demogorgos has fled the forums because of, well, some "friction." I'm not hindered to admit that i, myself, can not speak intelligently on it and everyone else who responded on the OA thread didn't seem to either, well atleast as knowledged as Demogorgos, and everything that was worth recording in my Magical diaries was from his input. I'm looking for it to be explained by someone who doesn't cringe when they hear Barret's name...this way it's not clouded by prior judgement.

So...it's rather dead in the water. But i will create a thread Ultra. This way i can not say we didn't try. However, who's going to pick up the reigns? Quagmire?

 

[blackout]

If Demogorgos has left... it was by his OWN choice.
He was not banned or restricted from posting by anyone.
If us LHP people don't take responsibility for our OWN choices,
and develop a thick skin.... WHO on earth Will?

I might be wrong but I also believe
that he stated in one or two of his threads
that he would NOT further explain Xem
to anyone who did not already know what it meant.
:areyoucra


(and that he would only continue the discussion in private correspondence)

Early on, he said he preferred private correspondence.

So WHO then did you want to discuss Xem with you on the forum?

What IS this "blame game" all about?

Are you saying that it's Magister Adam's FAULT that Demogorgous left?...
and refuses to discuss his own word?

 

[Valor]

From what I've read from Demogorgos posts-and I am familiar with him as a former Setian-he had it coming.

Not here he didn't... Maybe you could have taken a trip. (or tested your L/GBM fences) oh, thats right... You didn't chime in...but "he had it coming?"

So then, is it safe to assume no matter where he pops up, the ToS will be there to "give it to him", cause after all he had it coming? Perhaps register within the OA and give it to him there?

I know if someone "had it coming" with me...trampling on my flowers, he would be pushing up his own.

 

[blackout]

From now on, if i see a thread in the wrong forum,
I'm gunna get a mod to move it right away...
before it spins out of control.

I really hate drama.

I also hate cockfights.

Did I say I was done?
Let me try again.

 

[aa_nerut]

Valor,
If you are seriously interested in Xem, read what is available on it, i.e. the Keys of Xem in Dr. Aquino's ToS memoirs or the Ruby Tablet material that is floating around in cyberspace. If you still want more info, you can correspond with people that have attempted utilizing it, which tend to be ToS members. Granted there have been some comments by ToS members already and if these comments are still unsatisfactory to you then your next goals are either 1) do the work yourself, take your own time to figure out just what it means, or 2) go talk with this self proclaimed Magus of Xem and if he is willing to engage in his personal insight or willing to walk you down the path then this may be your answer.

Ultimately, Xem is part of the quest of the self, so no matter how much talk or reading about this subject there is out there or you engage in, you will get more value by attempting to pin-point this concept thru Work.

You seem rather dissatisfied with anyone's answers except the new Xem Magus, so I personally think you should seek him out and talk with him about it.

 

[Valor]

Valor,
If you are seriously interested in Xem, read what is available on it, i.e. the Keys of Xem in Dr. Aquino's ToS memoirs or the Ruby Tablet material that is floating around in cyberspace. If you still want more info, you can correspond with people that have attempted utilizing it, which tend to be ToS members. Granted there have been some comments by ToS members already and if these comments are still unsatisfactory to you then your next goals are either 1) do the work yourself, take your own time to figure out just what it means, or 2) go talk with this self proclaimed Magus of Xem and if he is willing to engage in his personal insight or willing to walk you down the path then this may be your answer.

Ultimately, Xem is part of the quest of the self, so no matter how much talk or reading about this subject there is out there or you engage in, you will get more value by attempting to pin-point this concept thru Work.

You seem rather dissatisfied with anyone's answers except the new Xem Magus, so I personally think you should seek him out and talk with him about it.

I'm in Dialog with Demogorgo's, yes. And i have already put in motion my learning process...it was just nice to have it so far from reach. I guess i'm guilty of convienance... Now the Work must go on, i know. Thank you aa-nerut.

Am i being to harsh? too Antinomian? Maybe, but it's just my nature. I have much work to be done on the Self too.

 

[aa_nerut]

Honestly only you can answer that one. If you feel that you are being to harsh then you have to weigh the options of continuing the harshness or backing off. It's really not for anyone else to say, you will be your own feather of Ma'at, and your own Ammit to devour your heart if you tip that scale.

I'm sure you are about to embark on something rather interesting, though my thoughts on it, always keep that antinomian element within you and always question even in your dialogs with Demogorgo. And of course, share your findings if you deem them relevant to others initiations.

 

[Valor]

Honestly only you can answer that one. If you feel that you are being to harsh then you have to weigh the options of continuing the harshness or backing off. It's really not for anyone else to say, you will be your own feather of Ma'at, and your own Ammit to devour your heart if you tip that scale.

I'm sure you are about to embark on something rather interesting, though my thoughts on it, always keep that antinomian element within you and always question even in your dialogs with Demogorgo. And of course, share your findings if you deem them relevant to others initiations.

Your always logical and to the point aa. I'm just gonna let it go, i've got so much more to worry about during this stage of Initiation. I appreciate your great advice, as always my friend, including your subtle concern for my well being.

Thank you, genuinely.

 

[KHPR]

Are you saying that it's Magister Adam's FAULT that Demogorgous left?...

Oh, I could never take any credit for that.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[ktf]

No, you can't take credit for that. Here is what you can take credit for...

You can take credit for resorting to ad hominem attack in response to the philosophical and magical arguments that Demogorgos put forward. You can take credit for telling a lie in the attempts to silence a critic. Take credit for that.

 

[aa_nerut]

KTF,
I don't understand what it is that you want from Magister Adams, you want him to take credit for an ad hominem attack and telling a lie, which I believe and I could be wrong here, he already did with the statement "I stand corrected, resigned prior to expulsion for making threats to another initiate" in the Order of Anubis thread.

 

[aa_nerut]

Point taken, but I have to follow it up with the question, then what? What do you get out of "exposing the underhanded technique", if indeed there was one to begin with? As I understand it, Magister Adams made a mistake in his statement of Demogorgos being expelled, if this is what we are talking about, then after being told that Demogorgos resigned even stated he "stood corrected".

I would be under the impression that if it was an underhanded technique that Magister Adams would have stuck to his guns in trying to continue to "silence a critic". But the contrary happened and Magister Adams said he was wrong. Now people are allowed to make mistakes and more to the point of Magister Adams "character" is that he did at least state he was wrong in his original assumption of the specifics, in fact he do so at least three different times already.

I don't see this as an underhanded technique by any stretch of the imagination, though I may very well be missing something vital to sway me in that direction. You are of course free to see things as you will, I just don't see it, and more importantly I don't see the point in the need to prove that there was an underhanded technique at all, as the end result still doesn't effect life at all.

What I am curious about though is why do people get focused on points such as this, were we just have to have some kind of explanation, even when the end result is still completely irrelevant to the self. But the burning fire of inquisition still prods us on. This is what I find more interesting than "perceived motives" of someone else.

Again I could very well be missing something vital here.

 

[KHPR]

I do not expect anything from Magister Adams. Even his retraction included an unsubstantiated accusation. My interest is exposing the underhanded technique.

It's only unsubstantiated if you're not a member of the Priesthood of the Temple of Set. The thread was anti Setian and took place in the Setian forum. Your postings seem to be more based on attacks on me that a debate.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[Adramelek]

Ok, ktf, Magister Adams' accusations about "Demogorgos" are NOT unsubstantiated. I know who he (Demogorgos) really is, and trust me, he did get what he deserved - I was in the Temple when he left and as a matter of fact he was expelled first, then he "resigned" in order to try to save face.

It's best not to offer an opinion about something of which you know nothing about or no nothing about the circumstances. And I'm not going to get into an argument with you about this as I no the facts surrounding the truth of the matter.

/Adramelek\

 

[KHPR]

Magister Adams would have stuck to his guns in trying to continue to "silence a critic".

I do stick to my guns, but not to "silence a critic", but to show the problems in their logic. I merely pointed out that the critic of the Temple of Set was a former Adept posting in the Setian DIR who was going to be expelled and upon being informed by a member of the Priesthood--"Mr. Frost" he resigned. Again, I made the mistake of saying he was expelled because for all intents and purposes that's what it appeared to most of the Priesthood, upon checking the roster of ex-Setians there is a note that he resigned pending expulsion. I could post that from our roster, but that again could easily be taken as an "unsubstantiated claim."

I'll leave it at that to attempt to ward off any more unsubstantiated attacks by KTF.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[ktf]

This is all well and good but a persons status or non status in the ToS has no bearing on their use of logic. Not in my book anyway. I am also not impressed by the argument that because I am not a member of the ToS religion I can not speak on this topic. This is not a Temple run forum. my point is that KHPR attempted to attack the Demogorgos character as oppossed to discussing his points. I have no ill will towards any of you. I just do not appreciate the tactic of ad hominem "argumentation".

 

[Valor]

Very good...so it is done?