Wonder what happened?

[ktf]

"The left hand path is unique among metaphysical traditions in that it deliberately repudiates all and any sacred cows that lumber into view. Whether left-hand path initiates are located in Bombay, Manchester, Sydney, or Cincinnati, a mutal discipline is to keep a sharp eye out for one's own sacred cows, slaughtering them ruthlessly as a means to personal power."
"Demons of the Flesh" Nicholas and Zeena Schreck

AWAKE!

 

[ktf]

I posted the above quote because I think it describes something that should be at the heart of any genuine LHP praxis but is all too often absent. We create our own, or buy into anothers sacred cow (even a LHP sacred cow) and quickly forget that the LHP is the Path of the rebel, the accuser, the individual.

I think that most of us on the LHP began this Quest with deep questions. At the beginning of the Quest we would not accept the nice and neat pre-packaged answers that the available religions put on display. In the beginning of our Quest our minds were sharp like razors, ready and willing to cut through all B.S. (Belief Sytems) without mercy. We were driven by a Quest for Truth. Perhaps one of the dangers of the LHP is that the Quest for Truth can slowly transform into the acceptance of dogma, faith, and belief. In short, we break from all sacred cows when we begin the LHP, but we must exercise caution lest we find ourselves creating new LHP sacred cows.

Faith based religions, whether LHP or otherwise, never welcome open discussion or critique of their dogma. Most dogma easily falls apart in the light of logic and reason and thus, those who cling to dogma must hide from this light and snuff it out whenever possible.

I am just one person, one Black Magician. I belong to no Order, hold no fancy title. I do not know any of the secret hand shakes or pass words. I was never issued a secret decoder ring or medallion. I am one person. But the LHP exists inside of me. The LHP exist in, "your own brain, spinal column, and genitals, waiting to be switched on."(Demons of the Flesh) But we can never switch it on by kneeling before any sacred cows.
If you meet the Buddha on the road...kill him.

As soon as a person, organization, book, belief, doctrine, or idea becomes "safe" from the scalpel of intellectual questioning, critique, and investigation then the LHP has become dormant once again.

AWAKE!

 

[Willamena]

I think that most of us on the LHP began this Quest with deep questions. At the beginning of the Quest we would not accept the nice and neat pre-packaged answers that the available religions put on display. In the beginning of our Quest our minds were sharp like razors, ready and willing to cut through all B.S. (Belief Sytems) without mercy. We were driven by a Quest for Truth. Perhaps one of the dangers of the LHP is that the Quest for Truth can slowly transform into the acceptance of dogma, faith, and belief. In short, we break from all sacred cows when we begin the LHP, but we must exercise caution lest we find ourselves creating new LHP sacred cows.

Isn't that (in blue) a sacred cow?

 

[ktf]

Great point Willamena, thanks for responding.

Actually I suppose it could become a sacred cow. In my own experience the Quest for Truth has to be infused with the desire and ability (not always an automatic combination) to recognize when I am falling short in that Quest. In my opinion the Quest for Truth would become a sacred cow when one no longer applied critique and doubt to one's own discoveries. Another way to understand this point: I had a science teacher who said that when one forms a hypothesis one must then do everything one can to disprove the hypothesis. In other words one does not search for things that prove one right but rather attempt to prove oneself wrong. Perhaps through this method one can refine one's understanding to a point that approaches truth.

What are your thoughts?

 

[methylatedghosts]

I am just one person, one Black Magician. I belong to no Order, hold no fancy title. I do not know any of the secret hand shakes or pass words. I was never issued a secret decoder ring or medallion. I am one person. But the LHP exists inside of me. The LHP exist in, "your own brain, spinal column, and genitals, waiting to be switched on."(Demons of the Flesh) But we can never switch it on by kneeling before any sacred cows.
If you meet the Buddha on the road...kill him.

The bolded parts there... those two are linked yes?

That the Buddha should be found inside, rather than outside?

 

[Willamena]

In other words one does not search for things that prove one right but rather attempt to prove oneself wrong. Perhaps through this method one can refine one's understanding to a point that approaches truth.

What are your thoughts?

You're approaching the truth, boldly striding backwards.

The sounds about right.

 

[KHPR]

IMO, the censorship has just gone too far here. And keep in mind that real LHP topics along the lines of your beautiful quote must not be discussed on RF anyway..

While I generally don't like quotes from Nick and Zeena due to their pompous nature (Zeena once stated, "You don't know what it's like being borne into a religious aristocracy") we have to remember that while the LHP goes against the grain, RF supports many religions that don't the general rule is not to debate because debates tend to turn into attacks.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[ktf]

Ofocurse, there are many religions represented on these forums. However, I for one would expect LHP practioners to be able to handle discussion, debate, critique and questioning without attacking. I hold practioners of the LHP to standards far above those of anyone else. It is also my opinion that sharp discussions and debate are a key aspect of LHP praxis.
But, the rules of the RF are pretty clear cut and strict...

On another note: Magister Adams, am I mistaken in thinking that Zeena was at one time the High Priestess of the Temple of Set and that Nicholas held the rank of Magister as you yourself do?

 

[KHPR]

On another note: Magister Adams, am I mistaken in thinking that Zeena was at one time the High Priestess of the Temple of Set and that Nicholas held the rank of Magister as you yourself do?

You are correct, but it was short lived. She was trying to make the priesthood move in a lockstep manner and set up bi-annual reports to her so she could evaluate their true nature as priests. The council of nine begun to not like this in part because it was a turn around of the way she acted prior to becoming HP. I believe she might have lasted a little over a year at most before she and Nikolas resigned pending talk of her removal as HP.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[Daelach]

RF supports many religions that don't the general rule is not to debate because debates tend to turn into attacks.

Can you clearify this statement? Is it the general rule here at RF (makes me wonder why then an LHP subforum exists)? Or is this generally the rule with most religions? The latter one is quite evident, I guess; especially if you look at religions as a device of mass control psychology.

In medieval Europe, those in power used to justify the world order (which of course was quite in their favour) by claiming that it was their god's will. As long as people kept swallowing this, the power of the reigning ones was safe. Just until the French decided that making some heads role was a quite valid option.. and it wasn't by accident that many Enlightment philosphers (Voltaire, Rousseau etc) also came from France.

So from the perspective of people who use religion in a Macchiavellistic way (and who of course always would deny that as a part of their plot!), debate is undesirable. Or if debate cannot be avoided, they will at least try to take control of the debate, raising certain taboos and enforce them - as long as they can.

But LHP practitioners will have to disobey because otherwise, they would betray their LHP in practice. LHP means not to believe, but to force people to leave their occult/religious/faithly cover babble they hide behind. This is not attack, as I see it, this is the way LHP works for producing knowledge instead of faith. Knowledge can and even must be attacked because if it is valid knowledge instead of faith, it can be defended. Otherwise, it is just one more myth debunked, which means a gain in knowledge for all participants.

In this vain, I find it quite interesting that hurting the feelings of religious people is as least frowned upon (if it is not illegal to begin with) in many places, while hurting the feelings of NONreligious people (e.g. by claiming that various religious beliefs also apply to them) is perfectly OK.

 

[Storm]

While I generally don't like quotes from Nick and Zeena due to their pompous nature (Zeena once stated, "You don't know what it's like being borne into a religious aristocracy") we have to remember that while the LHP goes against the grain, RF supports many religions that don't the general rule is not to debate because debates tend to turn into attacks.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

OK, I need to clear this up. Debate is perfectly fine in the debate areas, which does not include the DIRs.

Carry on, folks.

 

[ktf]

Thank you for clarifying that. I think it brings up an interesting question that I hope you, as a Magister Templi of the ToS will be able to respond to. Please be assured this is not an attempt at debate but rather a question from one LHP practioner to another.

The ToS operates on a process of Recognition correct? The idea being that an initiate or group of initiates of a certain grade would have the ability to Recognize the attainment of that grade in another initiate? For example, you as a Magister Templi would presumably have the ability to Recognize another person who had attained the grade of Magister Templi. Is this a generally correct, if brief, description?
My question is how were Zeena and Nicholas Recognized to the high grades of Magister Templi if they were not indeed Magisters? Or were they? Secondly, how would the ToS elevate someone to the post of High Priestess who did not have the true inner qualities to hold that office? Now I recognize that the grades are levels of inner and outer magical attainment and the High Priesthood is more of an office. I assume this is correct? It seems strange that these 2 would have attained such high levels in the ToS and now be held with such low regard. Did something go "wrong" in the Recognitions of Zeena and Nicholas?
I do not know much about either one of them but I have read many of their contributions to the Scrolls and am currently reading "Demons of the Flesh" and find them to be original LHP philosophers. I would assume they are both adept practioners as well. What are your impressions?

 

[Daelach]

@ moderator Storm: Sorry, I didn't get the difference between debate and dir areas here at RF, thanks for the hint.

What I generally wanted to add concerning debate/attacks from a Setian view: Set is a god of war, not of peaceful knowledge (this is Thoth and not Set!). So we as Setians certainly will want to walk in Set's footsteps not because of some belief, but because we resemble him (whether we see him as a form of concscious being or just as a concept or symbol, does not make a difference). This and not belief or hope for reward is the reason why we are Setians. We are of the same kin as Set, that is what makes Set so natural to us, and that is why we are attracted to him in the first place.

 

[Storm]

@ moderator Storm: Sorry, I didn't get the difference between debate and dir areas here at RF, thanks for the hint.

No worries. It confuses a lot of people. You're welcome.

 

[KHPR]

My question is how were Zeena and Nicholas Recognized to the high grades of Magister Templi if they were not indeed Magisters? Or were they? Secondly, how would the ToS elevate someone to the post of High Priestess who did not have the true inner qualities to hold that office? Now I recognize that the grades are levels of inner and outer magical attainment and the High Priesthood is more of an office. I assume this is correct? It seems strange that these 2 would have attained such high levels in the ToS and now be held with such low regard. Did something go "wrong" in the Recognitions of Zeena and Nicholas?

Contrary to what some people have said about us in the past...We're not infallible. I was a Magister at the time and I didn't see it, but other people did. Perhaps for some there was a bit of romanticism that the daughter of Anton would run the Temple of Set. They were a bit like carnies from my eye waiting to pull one over on everyone and to some extent they did. There were many people of the Priesthood that didn't like the idea and the ones who jumped on their bandwagon really just wanted to ride their coattails. When they left they went to create "The Storm" which according to one friend of mine who left with them fell apart within 6 months. They took a few members with them nothing near what happened when Dr. Aquino left the CoS, maybe 10-12 at most.

By then I remember receiving a call from one of the members of the C9 who said, "What are we going to tell everyone?!?!" I remember saying, "Well I'm not on the C9 and I never thought it should have happened, so I'm not the best person to ask."

Regarding the position of HP, they are responsible for helping to guide the Temple forward.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[KHPR]

What I generally wanted to add concerning debate/attacks from a Setian view: Set is a god of war, not of peaceful knowledge (this is Thoth and not Set!). So we as Setians certainly will want to walk in Set's footsteps not because of some belief, but because we resemble him (whether we see him as a form of concscious being or just as a concept or symbol, does not make a difference). This and not belief or hope for reward is the reason why we are Setians. We are of the same kin as Set, that is what makes Set so natural to us, and that is why we are attracted to him in the first place.

To some he was the God of War. Not to everyone. To others he brought order out of chaos, or was the enemy of stasis.

Someone once asked me why I would think that the head of Set would be that of a fish when he was the God of the outside lands. You'll have to check the Setian DIR to read that story.

Xeper,
Magister Robert Adams
Host, KHPR: The Voice of Darkness

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

"The left hand path is unique among metaphysical traditions in that it deliberately repudiates all and any sacred cows that lumber into view. Whether left-hand path initiates are located in Bombay, Manchester, Sydney, or Cincinnati, a mutal discipline is to keep a sharp eye out for one's own sacred cows, slaughtering them ruthlessly as a means to personal power."
"Demons of the Flesh" Nicholas and Zeena Schreck

AWAKE!

This is true to a point, but max schreck is hardly the spokesperson for everyone on the LHP. While it is a good thing to scrutinize your own opinions and weigh and measure the scrutiny of others in the name of separating truth from deception, it is hardly pragmatic to constantly question things that have shown themselves to be true, insofar as they pertain to ones own SU.

The LHP should be a tool, a platform from which to operate and accomplish real life goals, not an obstacle to prevent such progress from taking place. Before any work can be done one must first find solid ground on which to stand.

 

[blackout]

Each DIR forum is a little sacred place FOR the people OF that "religion"
(or philosophy, or even non-philosophy... as the case may be)
where they can talk and share and even debate AMONGST themSelves
without constant outside interference.

There is a very popular "General Debates" section
and "General Religious Debates" section
in which ANYONE can post.

If you want a "global" discussion
you simply need to post in the forum designed for such a thing.
Just put your debates in the right section is all.
It's really not a big deal.

I like having a place of sanctuary mySelf.

I don't live to endlessly explain and defend mySelf to other people.
you know? It gets tiring. And is mostly pointless.

 

[blackout]

Also if you want to keep a sacred cow for fun .....


*tips cow*

 

[ktf]

Love the post UV....espically the pet sacred cow!

I too thought the DIR was a place where us LHP folk could discuss, compare and debate in a friendly manner. Apparently I was wrong. We can discuss and compare but not debate. For that we've got to hike over tho the debate section.

AWAKE!