Tiberius
Well-Known Member
some christian denominations allow women priests. why? on what ground?
Maybe because it's silly to tell a person they can't do a particular thing just because of the shape of their genitals.
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some christian denominations allow women priests. why? on what ground?
No... not all referenced to priesthood is future:The one thing that most denominations of Christendom miss is the fact that there were no priests officiating in the first century church. The priesthood promised to Christ's disciples was not on earth and the ones chosen for that role could only hold that position in heaven. All reference to that priesthood were future. (Revelation 20:6) Elders were not priests on earth.
There is nothing that would make us come to that conclussion that I personally can see.The scripture in Galatians 3:28 that you quoted is a reference to the men and women who were chosen to be priests in heaven by God's Holy Spirit......once they attain to spirit life in heaven, they cease to be humans and so lose their nationality and status, as well as their gender. All are then one in Jesus Christ.
Actually, there are many female roles that varry in responsibility including women who governed IsraelReference to males in the Bible having all the roles that carry responsibility are a reflection of the gender roles that God assigned in Eden. He created the woman as a "complement" of the man....a helper to assist him in his role. The man was created first and the woman was created for the sake of the man.
So women could be ministers, (serving others) fully occupied with the preaching work, but not as earthly priests. All teaching in the congregations were to be done by men. That is because of the headship arrangement.
Headship is mentioned throughout the Bible as God's arrangement. The Patriarchs were men and their women supported them. Women knew their assigned role and only when women assume the role of a man is there problems.
Here is the order of rank according to 1 Corinthians 11:3...."But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God."
So, even Jesus Christ has a head over him.
Since the role of the elders in the congregation was to admonish, correct and teach, it was inappropriate to have women telling men what to do. Women had the submissive role, so men would not be naturally submissive to a woman in God's arrangement.....
"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account..." (Hebrews 13:17)
This is why all spirit beings are portrayed as male....including God. It is not a slight on women, because a woman's role is of utmost importance too. The man is incomplete without her. A woman who values her God assigned role, is valued by God. (Proverbs 31:10)
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In the first century, women played a significant part in spreading Christianity. They preached to others about God’s Kingdom and did things related to that preaching work. (Luke 8:1-3) For example, the apostle Paul called Phoebe “a minister of the congregation that is in Cenchreae.” And in sending greetings to fellow workers, Paul mentioned a number of faithful women, including “Tryphaena and Tryphosa, women who are working hard in the Lord.” He also noted “Persis our beloved one, for she performed many labors in the Lord.” (Romans 16:1, 12)
So women could be ministers, (serving others) fully occupied with the preaching work, but not as earthly priests. All teaching in the congregations were to be done by men. That is because of the headship arrangement....
Galatians 2:38, for one.some christian denominations allow women priests. why? on what ground?
1 Timothy 2:12, for one.Why not? On what ground?
I don’t see it forbidden in the Bible.
some christian denominations allow women priests. why? on what ground?
thank you for this excellent post! may i ask you what the scriptures say about lilith?Doesn't actually say that.
It says Adam (first human) was male and female.
One half was split from the original to create a pair that could breed.
We also have other Jewish writings telling us this.
"In the first chapter of Genesis, the Torah chooses to refer to Adam in the plural: God created the man in His image; in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them. And God blessed them. (Genesis 1:27-28)
Why "them"? This was before the creation of Eve!
The Jewish Oral Tradition provides us with a fascinating insight into this grammatical oddity. The first human, it tells us, was really an androgynous being, both male and female in one body, sophisticated and self-sufficient.
But if God had created such a complete human being, why the later separation into two parts, into Adam and Eve? As God is the source of everything, self-sufficiency would be a spiritual defeat. The answer given is that God did not want this first human creation to be alone, for it would then possess an illusion of self-sufficiency. Note that there is no word for "independence" in classical Hebrew. (What we use now, atzma'ut, is of modern vintage.) The concept of independence doesn't exist in Jewish tradition. Aside from God, nothing and no one is really independent. Since we are supposed to ingrain into ourselves that God is the source of everything, self-sufficiency would have been a spiritual defeat. God wanted to fashion the human being into two separate people in order to create a healthy situation of dependence, yearning, and mutual giving. Human beings are not meant to be alone because then they would have no one to give to, no one to grow with, and nothing to strive for. To actualize oneself spiritually, a human being cannot be alone...." Adam masculine and feminine?
"Adam was initially created as a man and woman in a single body. Then this Adam was hewn apart, to become two separate beings.7Now one has become two. Two separate beings, each seeing the other as other. But not so that they should remain two others. Rather, so that those two others should return back together into yet greater union, face to face, with love and passion, and thereby generate life.
That is the divine image: a singularity torn apart and then pulling back together. Not a static form, but a drama; less a resolution than a sustained paradox. In miniature terms, it occurs in the marriage of two human beings. In cosmic terms, it is the drama of G‑d’s desire to fall in love, to give love, to be loved, to create life through love. And to be present in His world through love. ..." G‑d in Love - 1 + 1 = 1
"...But there is another way of understanding the word tzela, based on Midrash (Berei**** Rabbah 8:1; Vayikra Rabbah 14:1); the Gemara (Berachot 61a) and the Zohar (Berei**** 34b-35a; Shemot 55a; 231a).[9] As is known, there are two narratives detailing the creation of mankind—the first in chapter one of Berei****, the second in chapter two. In the first account, according to some commentators, it appears that the Adam was not solely a male, but was rather a being consisting of both male and female halves.[10] In chapter two, according to this explanation, this two-sided human was separated into the two genders, and it is this surgical procedure that is described in the verse.
According to the Zohar, the two top “yuds” that make up the Hebrew letter tzaddi represent this “double-faced” creature originally created by God. Sources debate whether the two beings faced the same direction or opposite directions; this argument forms the basis of the debate between Rabbi Yosef Karo and the Arizal regarding how to properly write a tzaddi.[11]
In Berei**** Rabbah (17:6), Rabbi Shmuel bar Rabbi Nachman understands tzela as “side,” and Rashi and Ibn Ezra (Berei**** 2:21) adopt this approach as well.[12] Rashi, following in the footsteps of the Midrash, supports his claim by pointing out that tzela is used in other places in Tanach to mean “side” as well (Terumah 26:20, 26-27).[13] ..."
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not all referenced to priesthood is future:
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
"are built up" is present tense. We ARE a holy priesthood.
1 Peter 2: But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people
"you ARE" is present tense
Gal 3: 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Nope... nothing there. All present and no priesthood for later althought I'm sure there will be.
Actually, there are many female roles that varry in responsibility including women who governed Israel
And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. No Kings at this point... judges were selected by God. Not only a judge but a prophetess with authority over men.
Thus.. the conclussion doesn't have support. IMV.
Addtionally your interpretation 1 Corinthians 11, as I view it, is incorrect in as much as Ephesians gives a more clear picture:
Eph 5:3 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Christ is the head of the spiritual church. The church comprises of both male and female. The spiritual head of the woman is not the man but Jesus Christ. In affairs of the natural, man is the head of the woman and even that is balanced out to the realities that the head is to lay down his life for the wife thus elevating her and prefering.
No one said any different. In the flesh there is gender and with gender came rules. Women have an important role in God's arrangement...but they were never to dictate to men as teachers in the congregation on earth.But definitily the man is not the spiritual mediator for the woman for in Christ there is neither male nor female.
In my view, one doesn't take the position at the expense of other scriptures but rather one finds the harmony so that all scriptures are included. As I view all scriptures, it doesn't support your position. (Not saying you can't have your position, but not in most non-denominatlonal churches)
That is your opinion.
There are no men mentioned around Phoebe - and that speaks volumes.
There is also no - a. She is the Deaconess/Pastor, not - a - diakonos.
Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, who is Diakonos/Pastor of the church which is at Cenchrea: (note no men mentioned, - SHE IS the DIAKONOS/Pastor)
Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also. (men are told to assist her in HER BUISNESS.)(SHE is not a helper.)
In case you were wondering - The 1568 Bishop's Bible calls her a Minister, as does the Vulgate.
The word you have in lowercase (minister) is also used for Jesus and Paul.
You use - congregation, - even though it is translated as CHURCH 113 of 116 times that it is used in the NT, including that verse.
The three translated as assembly, - are all in Acts and are non religious settings, and have nothing to do with churches.
Folks are tweaking the verse to make it appear as a lesser role, because of preconceived ideas about women. I find this interesting as Jesus appears to be progressive. He didn't stone the woman to death, - thus not following the religious law. So why not women pastors, apostles, etc. The NT tells us that it is women that fund, and feed him, and house him.
He has female disciples.
And it says he had female apostles.
Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsfolk and my fellow prisoners, whichsame are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
And it says Jesus was the apostle and HIGH PRIEST.
Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
So, it says they had female preachers and apostles.
We are told a woman, - Mary Magdalene, was given the commission to announce the resurrection.
My opinion is that he bucked tradition and had both male and female disciples, and apostles, and eventually they were Pastors just like the men.
thank you for this excellent post! may i ask you what the scriptures say about lilith?
That is your opinion.
There are no men mentioned around Phoebe - and that speaks volumes.
There is also no - a. She is the Deaconess/Pastor, not - a - diakonos.
Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, who is Diakonos/Pastor of the church which is at Cenchrea: (note no men mentioned, - SHE IS the DIAKONOS/Pastor)
Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also. (men are told to assist her in HER BUISNESS.)(SHE is not a helper.)
In case you were wondering - The 1568 Bishop's Bible calls her a Minister, as does the Vulgate.
The word you have in lowercase (minister) is also used for Jesus and Paul.
You use - congregation, - even though it is translated as CHURCH 113 of 116 times that it is used in the NT, including that verse.
The three translated as assembly, - are all in Acts and are non religious settings, and have nothing to do with churches.
Folks are tweaking the verse to make it appear as a lesser role, because of preconceived ideas about women. I find this interesting as Jesus appears to be progressive. He didn't stone the woman to death, - thus not following the religious law. So why not women pastors, apostles, etc. The NT tells us that it is women that fund, and feed him, and house him.
He has female disciples.
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Someone pointed out that there had to be females among the disciples, - or saying that would have been a major insult to the men.
And it says he had female apostles.
Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsfolk and my fellow prisoners, whichsame are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
And it says Jesus was the apostle and HIGH PRIEST.
Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
So, it says they had female preachers and apostles.
Women traveled with Jesus.
Luk 8:1-3 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him, And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
We are told a woman, - Mary Magdalene, was given the commission to announce the resurrection.
My opinion is that he bucked tradition and had both male and female disciples, and apostles, and eventually they were Pastors just like the men.
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Mainly because God shouldn't need a human to be some particular gender to communicate with them. How is it only males can represent God? That's would be strange if that's some rule God makes.some christian denominations allow women priests. why? on what ground?
all can communicate with god. but only males represent god because god is male.Mainly because God shouldn't need a human to be some particular gender to communicate with them. How is it only males can represent God? That's would be strange if that's some rule God makes.
Is a representative necessary for communion or remission of sins?all can communicate with god. but only males represent god because god is male.
yes.Is a representative necessary for communion or remission of sins?
Holy Spirit is female.yes.
the holy spirit is neutral. the creation and the church is female. god is male, so the priest is male, and us the worshippers form the female church. the communion is a wedding, the groom is the priest, and the bride is us the church. so in the communion we have male and female wedding.Holy Spirit is female.
If Christ has a father who is the mother?the holy spirit is neutral. the creation and the church is female. god is male, so the priest is male, and us the worshippers form the female church. the communion is a wedding, the groom is the priest, and the bride is us the church. so in the communion we have male and female wedding.
jesus as god doesn't have a mother. jesus as human has a mother, Mary.If Christ has a father who is the mother?
All that with the male priest is just tradition because the church recognizes that god "transcends the sexes". Even though they were constantly referring to it with chauvinist type distinctions.jesus as god doesn't have a mother. jesus as human has a mother, Mary.
I was going to agree with you, until the unnecessary Catholic bashing.Why not? On what ground?
I don’t see it forbidden in the Bible.
A man made religion, such as the Catholics, may forbid it, but that surely doesn’t make it right.