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Women in Ministry is Biblical

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by womenofdestiny, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    We cannot be sure that any formal recognition of deaconesses as an institution of consecrated women aiding the clergy is to be found in the New Testament. There is indeed the mention of Phebe (Romans 16:1), who is called diakonos, but this may simply mean, as the Vulgate renders it, that she was "in the ministry [i.e. service] of the Church", without implying any official status. Again, it is not improbable that the "widows" who are spoken of at large in I Timothy 5:3-10, may really have been deaconesses, but here again we have nothing conclusive. That some such functionaries were appointed at an early date seems probable from Pliny's letter to Trajan concerning the Christians of Bithynia (Ep. X, 97, [size=-2]AD[/size] 112) There he speaks of obtaining information by torture from two ancillae quae ministrae dicebantur, where a technical use of words seems to be implied. In any case there can be no question that before the middle of the fourth century women were permitted to exercise certain definite functions in the Church and were known by the special name of diakonoi or diakonissai.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04651a.htm
     
  2. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying, Scott, that there probably were deaconesses in the early church, but they had no official role therein?
     
  3. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    The info I looked at is saying that there were deaconesses in the early church.... but what exactly that means is lost to history. They may have been official "clergy" of some sort.... or just important members without "official" status.... I can't see anything definitive in this article or a few other I read.

    One thing for sure, if anything, they had a secondary role to that of Priests... and I think that's the only important piece of the puzzle for this discussion.
     
  4. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Scott,

    According to our tradition deaconesses were (are?) ordained, but I think this is not the same meaning as is usually given to the word. We tonsure readers and subdeacons, I believe, although they aren't strictly speaking ordained clergy, so I suspect that if we refer to deaconesses as ordained we mean something similar. Deaconesses did clearly have an important official role in the first centuries of the Church (and the widows may well have been deaconesses as you suggest), but it was very different from that of the deacons. They did not participate in the Liturgy as the deacon does and their main function appears to have been in preparing female catechumens for baptism, as well as various pastoral duties. They are referred to by writers in the early Church, though I'm not sure if there is anything terribly clear on them. I'm honestly not certain if there are any Orthodox deaconesses now. I seem to recall that the Copts have some and I'm certain that the Church of Greece is trying to revive them, though, so I'm sure that someone in the Church knows how they are ordained and what their exact functions should be - I'm just a bit vague on it all.

    James
     
  5. Stormygale

    Stormygale Member

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    Women in the Bible were 'tellers' and 'carriers' of the Word. I have read no where where a woman was given authority over a congregation or was ordained a minister. Correct me if I am wrong...
     
  6. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    This post made me wonder... Wouldn't anyond who were "tellers" and "carriers" of the Word be the true authority over any congregation? I would have to say your wrong Storymgale. If this congregation sought the true authority it would of been the official Word coming from the "telllers and "carriers". The authority would of had to of been given by revelation of God and gender has no bearing in the event but rather doers of the Word. Supporting the doctrine that males are superior in the called out is a cloak of truth I assume are the teachings of the false prophet.
     
  7. reyjamiei

    reyjamiei Member

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    If a General sent a messenger as a "teller" and "carrier" of his message to his troops in a war, who would be the true authority over the troops, the messenger or the General?
     
  8. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I would say the "words" would be the authority.
     
  9. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Recent historical back ground to Deaconesses in the Church of England
    http://www.womenpriests.org/related/stud_02.asp

    Events have over taken this with the Ordination of women to the Priesthood.
    Though most older men and women are first ordained Decons and take a secondary roll which does not include Holy Communion.(thouh they can assist)

    In the Manchester diocise ( where I live)100 0f the 400 priests are now women.


    Terry
    _______________________________________


    Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.


     
  10. reyjamiei

    reyjamiei Member

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    The words couldn't be the authority because if they were anyone elses words other then the one who has authority, they would be meaningless.
     
  11. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    You've lost me. Are you comparing the General to the God?
     
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