• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Women in Hinduism!!!

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I used to have flashbacks every time i hear people talking about women in Hinduism, because i remember the massive stories in movies and literature which talked about how widows had to be burned with their dead husbands. I used to think that these were just things done by some ignorant people in India, but the more Mr. Suraj was talking about how hindus almost worship women, the more i had to read more about this issue, and here i have some teachings in hinduism which i would like to know whether are true or not.

HINDU WOMAN (From the view point of Traditional Hindu law):

1. The Hindu woman has no right to divorce her husband.

2. She has no property or inheritance rights.

3. Choice of partner is limited because she can only marry within her own caste; moreover her horoscope must match that of the intending bridegroom/family.

4. The family of the girl has to offer an enormous dowry to the bridegroom/family.

5. If her husband dies she should commit Sati (being cremated with her dead husband). Since today's law forbids Sati, society mainly punishes her in other "holy" ways.

6. She cannot remarry.

7. The widow is considered to be a curse and.must not be seen in public.

8. She cannot wear jewellery or colourful clothes.

9. She should not even take part in her children's marriage!

10. Child and infant marriage is encouraged.


Are these Hindu traditions and laws or not?
 
Last edited:

Makaveli

Homoioi
I am glad you have brought this up, TashaN. I am hoping that we get some factual answers out of this.
 

kai

ragamuffin
yes very interesting , and it would be beneficial to all to clear these points up in a gentlemanly and respectful manner, a fascinating subject.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
I don't mind this, discussing Hinduism and women in a thread on it makes sense. Now you can go all out with your criticism and claims, as I have done with Islam.

We already know the abysmal lack of freedom Muslim women have in Pure Islam, as demonstrated in the other thread. Let us summarize:

1) They are sex objects in heaven, they assume corners in heaven, where believers come and enjoy them(i.e., have sex with them) they are also sex objects on earth, and must please their husbands sexual appetite whenever he calls.

2) They are worth half of a man. The testimony of two women is equal to one man. A woman who is raped needs four male witnesses to testify it happened, in fact under Sharia law she can't accuse at all, or she will get 80 lashings....

3) They are not allowed to leave the home, and if they do, they must cover themselves completely head to toe. Apparently, because Islamic scriptures say women are perceived as genitals, so they must cover themselves. Hence why they are not allowed in Mosques.

4) Muslim women are considered to have deficient intellect so they can't study in Pure Islam. They are not allowed in Muslim clergy.

5) They are considered to be made from ribs of men. Thus men are their lords, and they must please them completely. The man can also beat his wife if he wants.

6) Men are permitted to keep sex slaves as women and rape them.

This is all I am going to say on Women in Islam in this entire topic. I am simply bringing things into perspective. It is well known that in the past that women all around the world lacked freedom. So, even if we take the above points by Tashan as representative, it is not exclusive to Hinduism, it includes his own religion Islam :)

I will cover Women in Hinduism from a Hindu point of view later :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Okay let me open my discussion by saying I want fairness and consistency. The view of women of Hinduism can only be represented by pure Hinduism, as the views of Islam on women can only be represented by pure Islam. I am not interested in later views and practices as this is not representative. We all know the freedom Muslim women enjoy in Western countries is not representative of Islam, the freedoms they have under Sharia law is more representative of Islam, and even more representative is the Islamic scriptures.

Likewise, I am not going to accept any later practices in India or later Indian texts as representative of Hinduism. So there is no pointing quoting the Smritis and Puranas and telling me of widow-burning, child-marriage and dowry. It is well know to Historians that these practices either did not exist, or existed to a very low extent in Hinduism prior to invasions of India by the Muslims and Europeans.

I am only going to accept as evidence as the highest scriptures of Hinduism which are known as Sruti(Vedas, Upanishads etc) and the Mahabharata, Ramayana, Gita. These are representative of Hinduism, in the same way the Quran and Hadiths are representative of Islam, and the Bible is representative of Christianity. Moreover, I am only going to accept translations done by Hindu experts. I have used Muslim translations of Quran in other threads, so that is fair.

I am only going to accept as evidence the early history of Hinduism as representative for social practices of Hindus in regards to women. Just as I accept the early history Islam as representative of Islamic practices, and likewise for Christians. To take later practices as representative is inaccurate and unfair e.g., we know in Pure Christianity women did not enjoy freedoms, but do today, not because of Christianity, but feminism and secular women rights movements.

It is impossible to debate religions without having consistency. So I have set the standard for consistency which is equal for all religions. In short: highest scriptures(authorative) and earliest history. If you don't accept, fine, then don't debate with me :)

To make this thread easy to assimilate and to reduce my load I am going to post in parts.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
42-17441660.jpg


A Hindu women

A Hindu woman is half-way between a Western woman and a Muslim woman. She does not have as many freedoms as a Western woman has(especially sexual freedom) but has more freedom than a Muslim woman. In a traditional society Hindu women cannot wear revealing clothes like Western women wear, she cannot be promiscuous. Her chasity is her biggest asset and quality as a woman, and it is something she is told to protect and preserve until she is married. The dupatta(the scarf) is symbolic of that, it covers her up, and in India a man even putting his hand on her dupatta is considered sexual assault.

As you can see from the picture above a Hindu woman can dress modestly, wear jewelry and comestics and has no restriction in moving about in society. The traditional Indian sari is a very comfortable(as said by women) and considered to be sensuous, graceful and beautiful

It is common saying in India which says, "A woman is a daughter, a sister, a mother and a wife" so Hindus are very paternal and caring towards women. This reflects in its traditions which are unique only to Hinduism. For example Raksha Bhandan. Raksha Bhadan is an annual tradition where brothers and sisters honour each other, the sister ties a rakhi(a decorative thread) around the wrist of her brother, gives him a sweet and he gives her a gift and promises to protect his sister. This is why in Hinduism the sister is always protected by her brother.

Hindu society is very protective of women. I have seen myself when I went to India and witnessed an incident when a man was being indecent to a woman on a bus, the people on the bus got really angry, abused the man, and he was then thrown off the bus. A sure-fire way to get yourself in trouble in India is to be disresptful and indecent to a woman. It is because of this women walk about freely in public. In Hindu history, it is interesting to note that wars were fought over a woman being disrespected. In the Ramayana, Sita was abducted by Ravana, a Sri Lankan king and this lead to a huge war between India and Srilanka. In the Mahabharata, the Pandavas wife Drupadi was humilated in public, this lead to the Mahabharata war.

The highest respect is accorded to the mother. It is said in Hinduis, whoever disrespects their mother will never succeed in life. Hence why Hindu men are very obediant to their mothers. The mother plays the role of nuturing her children and looking after them, especially emotionally. In Hinduism, disrespecting ones mother is considered the highest insult, and Hindus do not tolerate it. I myself do not tolerate my mother being disrespected.

The wife in a traditional Hindu society will live with her mother in law and her husband as a part of a joint family, which can consist of brother in laws, sister in laws. In Hinduism the ideal family is one where everybody is living in harmony, thus great emphasis goes on family values and every family has a hierarchy. The husband, because he is the bread winner of traditional family, has a higher position in the family than his wife(this is almost universal in all traditional families) but the mother has an even higher position.

Hindu marriages take place through choice, but arranged by parents. As Hinduism is very family orientated, it is important that both families agree and get along. The woman is allowed to choose her husband. What traditionally happens is for the boy and his family to come to the girls house, and then the boy and girl see each other and make a decision on whether they want to marry each other. The families have already done all the background checks before the meeting even begins to ensure it is a perfect match. The woman is free to choose whether she wants to marry or not. I recommend an Indian film called Vivah to see how this process works and the dynamics of a Hindu family

In traditional Hindu society there is no tradition of casual relationships or premartial sex. In traditional society both the man and women would be sent off for education by their parents as children as very young children, and once they graduated in their mid 20's, only then would marriage be considered. This tradition still continues on in Modern Hindu society. Hence why education is a high priority with Modern Hindu women too.

Of course not all Hindu women get married and become housewives. In early Hindu history women could work, join the army or practice as priests or Gurus. The same kind of freedom Hindu women enjoyed in yesteryear is enjoyed by Modern Hindu women. As soon as you land into Indira Ghandi Airport in Delhi, you will see women customs officials, women constables. If you walk into Indian Supreme court, you will see loads of women judges and lawyers. There are plenty of Hindu women doctors, teachers, judges, lawyers and CEO's of companies. There are also many Hindu women spiritual women.

Hindu women have no restrictions in practicing Hinduism. They can read the highest Hindu scriptures, they can go to the temple(most people there are women) and women also engage in sacred rituals and can take the highest position of religious authority.

Hindu women do not really identify with being oppressed. I think they look at Western women telling them they are oppressed with mock disbelief and mild amusement.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
There are many Hindus living in this country and none of those laws are practised or even taught.

To me, the subjugation of Hindu women are cultural practises and not associated with religion. For example in the case of dowry, it all began when the parents of a bride would send money to her husband's family to ensure the well being of their own daughter. The bride's parents did this out of their own free will and to ensure their daughter's happiness. As time passed, the parents of grooms started demanding money from the bride's family! From the beginning of Hinduism, women were given equal respect as men. There were even women who wrote parts of the Vedas which are the foundation of Hinduism. Even during the creation of humans it is said that Bramha divided himself in half...one became man and one woman. In the Gita, it is said that a true devotee sees the Lord equally in all living beings.
 
Last edited:

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Father Heathen, how is that apparent from my above post? Hindu women are treated better than most cultures, let us just put it like that.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
A glimpse at what the highest scriptures of Hinduism, the Vedas, say on women.

O Husband and Wife, may you both life the full span of your life in wedded bliss. Never be separated from each other. May you life joyously in your home with your children and grandchildren
(Atharva 14.1.22)

O Husband and Wife, may you be considerate and affectionate towards each other. Follow the path of duty and justice. Beget noble brave children and build your own home to live in
(Atharva 14.2.43)

O Bride, attend to the well being of all members of your family, sharing their joys and sorrows. May your coming bring good fortune to your husband, father-in-law, mother-in-law and the rest of the family
(Atharva 14.2.26)

O Bride, entering the house, may you become the guiding light of this family. Endowed with intelligence and understanding, may you observe the rules of good and healthy living in your home. May the Lord shower his blessings upon you(Atharva 14.2.75)

He whose mother and father
Are not served and honoured
Meet with worries and woes;
While he whose mother and father
Are held in high esteem
Achieve bliss and wins admiration
Among his friends
And virtuous people.
(Rig 4.6.7)

Met married women be in their homes
noble ladies and ideal wives
Adorned with fragrant balms and collyrium
May they be healthy and happy
Adorned with ornaments and jewels
(Atharva 12.2.31)

(All translations are by Vidyalankar, the Holy Vedas)

The scriptural injunctions above are consistent with Hindu practices. The bride enters the groom's family during a very colourful ceremony. She is welcomed with lots of celebration and glorified as 'goddess lakshmi' she is considered to be very auspicious and considered to be good fortune. After marriage, the Hindu ideal is a blissful life, where the woman is the noble lady and queen of the house.

There is absolutely no injunction for beating a woman, dominating her or using her as a sex slave.
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Good points Suraj about a woman being "Lakshmi" in the home. Lakshmi represents prosperity and our religion says that homes where women are mistreated or abused, will never prosper.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
There were even women who wrote parts of the Vedas which are the foundation of Hinduism. Even during the creation of humans it is said that Bramha divided himself in half...one became man and one woman. In the Gita, it is said that a true devotee sees the Lord equally in all living beings.

Thanks for that Hema. Yes, the Vedas are the highest scripture of Hinduism, and they have contributions from as many as 21 Women sages. The highest freedom you can have in a religion is the freedom to read religous texts, to practice as a priest, and write in religious texts. There is no religion other than Hinduism that gives women that freedom. Have you heard of a gospel written by a woman, or a woman Islamic priest? Or a woman bishop?

The freedom of Hindu women is thus very apparent. They enjoy a lot of freedom within Hinduism :)
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
I do not feel oppressed one bit...and I have feminist tendencies, LOL. I believe that men and women are to be treated equally. God is even considered to be without gender but can be described as having male and female aspects. This is why many of our Deities are female and God is considered to be both Mother and Father. :)
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Yeah Hema, critics of Hindu views on women, don't seem to realise that Hinduism is full of as many Hindu goddesses as gods(all manifestations of that supreme being) and is the only religion that actually worships women as being the symbol of power. In Hindu Philosophy, a woman is Shakti(power) and can take on many forms. She is Lakshmi, wealth and fortune; she is Sarasvati, wisdom and inspiration; she is Durga and Kali, the terrific and terrible. On the last one, there are so many examples of really powerful women in Hindu history, such as Rani lakshmi bhai who was a terror for the British and fought against them in battle.

How many examples can one think of powerful Christian and Muslim women?
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
That is why I say that the oppression of women is more cultural rather than based on actual religious teachings because it has never been part of my culture and there are many Hindus in my country. :) My grandmother is a widow and she is so strong and outspoken in her community and in her Mandir. Everyone has huge respect for her. She got the nickname "The Iron Lady" and she even made papers once. :D
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't mind this, discussing Hinduism and women in a thread on it makes sense. Now you can go all out with your criticism and claims, as I have done with Islam.

We already know the abysmal lack of freedom Muslim women have in Pure Islam, as demonstrated in the other thread. Let us summarize:

1) They are sex objects in heaven, they assume corners in heaven, where believers come and enjoy them(i.e., have sex with them) they are also sex objects on earth, and must please their husbands sexual appetite whenever he calls.

2) They are worth half of a man. The testimony of two women is equal to one man. A woman who is raped needs four male witnesses to testify it happened, in fact under Sharia law she can't accuse at all, or she will get 80 lashings....

3) They are not allowed to leave the home, and if they do, they must cover themselves completely head to toe. Apparently, because Islamic scriptures say women are perceived as genitals, so they must cover themselves. Hence why they are not allowed in Mosques.

4) Muslim women are considered to have deficient intellect so they can't study in Pure Islam. They are not allowed in Muslim clergy.

5) They are considered to be made from ribs of men. Thus men are their lords, and they must please them completely. The man can also beat his wife if he wants.

6) Men are permitted to keep sex slaves as women and rape them.

This is all I am going to say on Women in Islam in this entire topic. I am simply bringing things into perspective. It is well known that in the past that women all around the world lacked freedom. So, even if we take the above points by Tashan as representative, it is not exclusive to Hinduism, it includes his own religion Islam :)

I will cover Women in Hinduism from a Hindu point of view later :)

:biglaugh:

The title of the thread wasn't clear enough? this thread is about Hinduism, not Islam.

What happened to what you said earlier about not going off-topic?

I am noble enough not to hijack threads. I have so far always remained on topic, it is you folks who always bring my religon up and defame it to change the subject.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ites-ireland-rights-debate-5.html#post1297473

:rolleyes:

Now, really, it was a smart move, you used this tactic which bringing false and shocking information about Islam in a silly way to get me worked up to respond to your useless baseless points but i won't do it. Let us focus in Hinduism Mr. Off-topic. :D

Your aim to take the discussion away from Hinduism by throwing garbage at mine has failed. Congratulations. haha :D

Now get over it and let's talk about Hinduism.
 
Last edited:

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
By the way you still didn't answer my question in the OP. Are the teachings in my first post part of Hinduism or not. I need a yes or no answer.
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Are the teachings in my first post part of Hinduism or not. I need a yes or no answer.

Hi TashaN. :) There are many scriptures in Hinduism but the authoritative scriptures are the Vedas. The Vedas give equal respect to women. For example:

“O women! These mantras are given to you equally (as to men). May your thoughts, too, be harmonious. May your assemblies be open to all without discrimination. Your mind and consciousness should be harmonious. I (the Rishi) give you these mantras equally as to men and give you all and equal powers to absorb (the full powers) of these mantras.” Rigveda 10-191-3.
 

Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Yeah Hema. The practices that came later were as you say cultural practices in India as a result of foreign occupation. Sati became prevalent during Mughal times to keep Hindu women from falling into the hands of lustful Muslims(their scripture says they have a right to rape their women) there is a very famous account of a Rajastani queen who commited sati when a Muslim Sultan seiged their fort. The men went out to defend against the hordes of Muslims coming in, and the queen knew that they would lose. So to protect the honour of the women they lit a huge fire, and all the women jumped in it and immolated themselves. When the Muslims broke through the fort in intent to rape the women, all they found was ashes and bones.

Similarly, the practices of Purdha, where Hindu women covered themselves so they couldn't be seen by men arose because Hindu women could not go out freely anymore in Muslim India, so they covered themselves so as not to be seen by Musims.

It is the same with child-marriage, Hindu women were vulnerable to Muslim predators, so to secure their future their families would marry them off at a very young age.

Dowry became prevalent during British raj times due to rampant poverty.

Hindus should not be blamed for these practices, when clearly they are not Hindu. It is really ironic when I see Muslim and Western people accuse Hindus of these practices, when the truth is, it is because of their people that Hindus got these practices. The relentless suffering and the persecution of the Hindus for 1000 years is a story that needs to be told to the world. In the same way the blacks have told about the slave-trade.

We should not allow the persecution to continue. It continues on in the form of hate and prejudice towards Hinduism, disguised as concern for the 'oppressed'
 

Hema

Sweet n Spicy
Yeah Hema. The practices that came later were as you say cultural practices in India as a result of foreign occupation. Sati became prevalent during Mughal times to keep Hindu women from falling into the hands of lustful Muslims(their scripture says they have a right to rape their women) there is a very famous account of a Rajastani queen who commited sati when a Muslim Sultan seiged their fort. The men went out to defend against the hordes of Muslims coming in, and the queen knew that they would lose. So to protect the honour of the women they lit a huge fire, and all the women jumped in it and immolated themselves. When the Muslims broke through the fort in intent to rape the women, all they found was ashes and bones.

Similarly, the practices of Purdha, where Hindu women covered themselves so they couldn't be seen by men arose because Hindu women could not go out freely anymore in Muslim India, so they covered themselves so as not to be seen by Musims.

It is the same with child-marriage, Hindu women were vulnerable to Muslim predators, so to secure their future their families would marry them off at a very young age.

Dowry became prevalent during British raj times due to rampant poverty.

Hindus should not be blamed for these practices, when clearly they are not Hindu. It is really ironic when I see Muslim and Western people accuse Hindus of these practices, when the truth is, it is because of their people that Hindus got these practices. The relentless suffering and the persecution of the Hindus for 1000 years is a story that needs to be told to the world. In the same way the blacks have told about the slave-trade.

We should not allow the persecution to continue. It continues on in the form of hate and prejudice towards Hinduism, disguised as concern for the 'oppressed'

Yes it's true that India suffered a lot under Muslim rule but I know many Muslims who say that true followers of Islam are those who practise peace. So I think those Muslim oppressors are those who twisted around their religious teachings for their own selfish benefits.
 
Top