Women’s Leagues?

[SomeRandom]

Now this is more my own curiosity for how national local sports are held in your region.

Does your country have a nationalised professional women’s division for the sports played in your country?
I mean most sports have at least an amateur women’s division. But I’m talking something taken at least semi seriously by the relevant governing body?

For example in Australia we have a fairly recently established official National Women’s league, since 2017, for our local national sport known as AFL (Australian Rules Football or simply called “Footy” here.)
The owners apparently had to speed up their plans for media coverage since public support was more than anticipated.
Improvements can be made, obviously. But it exists at least, so meh
Surprised it took so long, with how many female fans there are of the sport. The percentage is apparently fairly high when world sports are taken into consideration

Rugby international oversees our official National Women’s Rugby League. I’m not sure if that counts as professional?
But it’s a thing here nonetheless. And I’ve seen a few televised matches so eh.

We also have an established official National Women’s Cricket League, all official and all overseen by relevant officials.

Australia also has an official National Women’s Basketball League.

So what about where you live?
Any you’d like see gain a proper pro women's league?

 

[ChristineM]

FIFA Women's World Cup™

Also
Women's Rugby League World Cup 2021

But im afraid im not very interested in football (soccer)

Where i am there are no women's teams locally if there were I'd be interested in the rugby. As it stands i have to watch local mens rugby when i get a gew hours to spare on Sunday afternoon. ;-)

 

[Father Heathen]

Women's soccer, tennis, basketball, and MMA in the U.S.

 

[Stevicus]

Now this is more my own curiosity for how national local sports are held in your region.

Does your country have a nationalised professional women’s division for the sports played in your country?
I mean most sports have at least an amateur women’s division. But I’m talking something taken at least semi seriously by the relevant governing body?

For example in Australia we have a fairly recently established official National Women’s league, since 2017, for our local national sport known as AFL (Australian Rules Football or simply called “Footy” here.)
The owners apparently had to speed up their plans for media coverage since public support was more than anticipated.
Improvements can be made, obviously. But it exists at least, so meh
Surprised it took so long, with how many female fans there are of the sport. The percentage is apparently fairly high when world sports are taken into consideration

Rugby international oversees our official National Women’s Rugby League. I’m not sure if that counts as professional?
But it’s a thing here nonetheless. And I’ve seen a few televised matches so eh.

We also have an established official National Women’s Cricket League, all official and all overseen by relevant officials.

Australia also has an official National Women’s Basketball League.

So what about where you live?
Any you’d like see gain a proper pro women's league?

Well, there's the WNBA for basketball, as well as women's college basketball. There are also leagues for women's softball, while men tend to play baseball. There's women's soccer, but not so much football from what I can tell. Tennis, golf, bowling all have women's leagues.

I'm not sure how any of these sports do in terms of ratings or revenue, although men's leagues seem to get more attention.

There's nothing to stop anyone from starting a pro women's league in any sport, although generating fan interest and enticing people to buy tickets and watch the game is another matter.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

There's nothing to stop anyone from starting a pro women's league in any sport, although generating fan interest and enticing people to buy tickets and watch the game is another matter.

There's lots in the way...!
Those aren't unique to women's sport, but starting up a national league in anything involves substantial costs, etc. Startup leagues face real chicken and egg issues around requiring investment, venue access, media access, etc to build audience, but also needing audience to drive investment, venue access, media focus, etc.

I get what you meant, and it's fair. In some cases men's leagues have been helpful to driving these things (for example our second tier women's basketball league here commonly plays their game as part of a double header preceding the men's game, which reduces cost, and get some extra eyes on the product).

In other cases support has been financial, but without the more general support that is possible.
It's tricky even working out the 'best' approach.

 

[Stevicus]

There's lots in the way...!
Those aren't unique to women's sport, but starting up a national league in anything involves substantial costs, etc. Startup leagues face real chicken and egg issues around requiring investment, venue access, media access, etc to build audience, but also needing audience to drive investment, venue access, media focus, etc.

I get what you meant, and it's fair. In some cases men's leagues have been helpful to driving these things (for example our second tier women's basketball league here commonly plays their game as part of a double header preceding the men's game, which reduces cost, and get some extra eyes on the product).

In other cases support has been financial, but without the more general support that is possible.
It's tricky even working out the 'best' approach.

Well, there's a lot of money in professional sports, and certainly lots of investors. As far as generating an audience to buy the product and get a return on their investment, that seems a matter of marketing.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well, there's a lot of money in professional sports, and certainly lots of investors. As far as generating an audience to buy the product and get a return on their investment, that seems a matter of marketing.

I think that varies greatly depending on the sport. Obviously I'm a little coloured by the Australian experience (small population, very large country, with key population hubs spread around the coast).

Or maybe you're coloured by the US experience. On a per capita basis, there is more revenue for the top clubs and leagued in the US than any other country (on a per capita basis). It's more than twice as much as Australia (which is ranked fourth in the world).

In most countries, sponsorship in particular, but even fan numbers is somewhat of a zero sum game. Sports need to attract paying fans, and attract corporate sponsorship, often in competition to other sports.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Now this is more my own curiosity for how national local sports are held in your region.

Does your country have a nationalised professional women’s division for the sports played in your country?
I mean most sports have at least an amateur women’s division. But I’m talking something taken at least semi seriously by the relevant governing body?

For example in Australia we have a fairly recently established official National Women’s league, since 2017, for our local national sport known as AFL (Australian Rules Football or simply called “Footy” here.)
The owners apparently had to speed up their plans for media coverage since public support was more than anticipated.
Improvements can be made, obviously. But it exists at least, so meh
Surprised it took so long, with how many female fans there are of the sport. The percentage is apparently fairly high when world sports are taken into consideration

Rugby international oversees our official National Women’s Rugby League. I’m not sure if that counts as professional?
But it’s a thing here nonetheless. And I’ve seen a few televised matches so eh.

We also have an established official National Women’s Cricket League, all official and all overseen by relevant officials.

Australia also has an official National Women’s Basketball League.

So what about where you live?
Any you’d like see gain a proper pro women's league?

Just thinking about curling: in Canada, men's and women's professional curling have equal status on average. Year to year, the men's or women's tournaments will get more attention based on the quality of play.

 

[Stevicus]

I think that varies greatly depending on the sport. Obviously I'm a little coloured by the Australian experience (small population, very large country, with key population hubs spread around the coast).

Or maybe you're coloured by the US experience. On a per capita basis, there is more revenue for the top clubs and leagued in the US than any other country (on a per capita basis). It's more than twice as much as Australia (which is ranked fourth in the world).

In most countries, sponsorship in particular, but even fan numbers is somewhat of a zero sum game. Sports need to attract paying fans, and attract corporate sponsorship, often in competition to other sports.

I live in what you would call a "minor league city," which doesn't have a large enough metro area to support a major league sports team. The local university gets a good following, though, although men's football and basketball seem to get the lion's share of attention - as well as the baseball team, which has had a pretty respectable program of national standing. However, I haven't followed them as much lately.

The main trouble is, professional sports (and even college sports, to some extent) has become a bit of a racket. I started losing interest back when the NFL used substitute players to cross the picket line during a players strike. And then there was the year they cancelled the World Series because of a players strike. Same has happened with the NBA and NHL at various times. Then the cost of tickets is through the roof. 50 years ago, a ticket to a Yankees game was $4.00 (Yankees ticket prices over the years). Now, the average ticket price is around $170 (Buy Yankees Tickets Online, NYY Schedule & Seating Chart | TicketSmarter.)

I won't even go into some of the crooked stadium deals I've heard about. If a local government doesn't give in to their demands, they'll pack and move, which has happened a few times.

It occurs to me that it may be possible for women's professional teams to get a stronger fanbase from cities that may be of reasonable size but not with a major league team. So, they wouldn't be directly competing with men's sports, since too many people are willing to pay exorbitant prices for these tickets (don't ask me why). But in smaller venues where the ticket prices might be more reasonable, the fans might come. But they'd also need strong media and community support.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I live in what you would call a "minor league city," which doesn't have a large enough metro area to support a major league sports team. The local university gets a good following, though, although men's football and basketball seem to get the lion's share of attention - as well as the baseball team, which has had a pretty respectable program of national standing. However, I haven't followed them as much lately.

The main trouble is, professional sports (and even college sports, to some extent) has become a bit of a racket. I started losing interest back when the NFL used substitute players to cross the picket line during a players strike. And then there was the year they cancelled the World Series because of a players strike. Same has happened with the NBA and NHL at various times. Then the cost of tickets is through the roof. 50 years ago, a ticket to a Yankees game was $4.00 (Yankees ticket prices over the years). Now, the average ticket price is around $170 (Buy Yankees Tickets Online, NYY Schedule & Seating Chart | TicketSmarter.)

I won't even go into some of the crooked stadium deals I've heard about. If a local government doesn't give in to their demands, they'll pack and move, which has happened a few times.

It occurs to me that it may be possible for women's professional teams to get a stronger fanbase from cities that may be of reasonable size but not with a major league team. So, they wouldn't be directly competing with men's sports, since too many people are willing to pay exorbitant prices for these tickets (don't ask me why). But in smaller venues where the ticket prices might be more reasonable, the fans might come. But they'd also need strong media and community support.

Good points.
At the risk of making this too anecdotal...

I live in Melbourne, which is one of the more saturated professional sports markets in the world. Just on the men's side of things that looks like this;
Financially, the big sport here is Aussie Rules, and of the 18 teams in the national league (AFL), no less than 9 are based in Melbourne, with another one just up the road in Geelong (literally a one hour drive away).
We have 2 national basketball teams, a national Rugby league team, a Rugby Union team, 2 soccer teams, 2 Big Bash cricket teams...

However, as a basketball nut, I go watch my local team, who play in the second level competition. A lot of their players also play in the top tier, but I can buy a season pass for $70, parking is free, and it takes me less than ten minutes to get to a home game, door to door.
The game day experience for my kids is awesome because they see their heroes wearing the same colours they play in, and can talk to them after the game. As a junior coach, I've also been given access to senior coaches, scouting sessions, and been able to bring my team to training and have them included in drills, etc.

It's not the NBA, obviously. The very best players in the league are good enough for NBA/WNBA tryouts, and a couple have stuck at that level, but it's still really good ball, and you are so close and involved.

It's kinda an antidote for watching the NBA and trying to work out why there are so many isolation plays in a team game.

Suffice to say, I think you're right

(Small side note : the competition I'm talking about isn't national. Instead they've divided Australia into four, with teams only playing within their own conference, in deference to it's semi pro nature and to reduce travel cost and time. They then have a Final Four at the end to determine the overall champion)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Now this is more my own curiosity for how national local sports are held in your region.

Does your country have a nationalised professional women’s division for the sports played in your country?

Yes.

Our men soccer team are the Red Devils. The women's division are the Red Flames.
Then in tennis, we off course had 2 of the biggest players in recent history in women's division: Clijsters and Henin.

I seem to remember there is also a national women team for basketball, but not sure.

I'm not that much into sports. Mostly just soccer. Don't really care about the rest


The women's divisions of soccer all throughout Europe is being really pushed by FIFA / UEFA lately.
Clubs themselves also are investing a lot.

But to be honest, I think it's mostly just bandwagon-hype-type stuff. I don't think it will last.
Sports as big as soccer require one vital source of blood to get, and remain, big: money.
And that money in soccer comes from following sources: tickets, merchandise, sponsorships and TV deals.

All of which depend heavily popularity, viewer ratings and attendees.

At this moment, the women's divisions can't really sustain themselves it seems to me.
The money that goes around there, mostly comes flowing in from investments and the men's competitions.
We can see this in clubs that struggle financially... whenever they need to save money and do cuts... the women teams are the first budget that gets a bite.

I don't want to go all sexist on this one, but it is just what it is: women soccer is simply not as exciting as men soccer. It's slower, it's less of a "war", ... it's just not upto par. The women players complain about how all the money goes to the men and how many of the "professional" players aren't able to make a decent living while only playing soccer unless they play for really big teams... But they don't seem to (want to?) realize that the money people are willing to pay to watch a Messi play... they simply don't want to pay that to watch women play.

Who knows, maybe in the future it might be different... perhaps simply more girls / women need to enter the sport and perhaps then the quality of play will go up.
But at this point.... even the mega top teams are rather boring to watch.

So I wonder how much longer it will last before "they" decide it is no longer worth the money drain.