Woke Marxist-Intersectional Politics Make You Miserable

[Tambourine]

So you know people who lived under marxist inspired systems? That’s interesting.
Well I know plenty who live under hyper capitalist “inspired” systems literally waiting for the apocalypse. So I mean, eh, so what?

The anti-Marxist hysteria in American political discourse is indeed rather interesting when one has actually met and talked to people who lived under communist regimes. Their gripes tended to have a lot less to do with public healthcare, antiracism, or even "political correctness", and a lot more with the fact that they were living under a tyrannical regime that persecuted people for being publically critical of its political and economic system while keeping the majority in poverty.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'll keep the capitalism for 200 Alex.

I didn’t realise I was asking you to give it up.

 

[Stevicus]

The anti-Marxist hysteria in American political discourse is indeed rather interesting when one has actually met and talked to people who lived under communist regimes. Their gripes tended to have a lot less to do with public healthcare, antiracism, or even "political correctness", and a lot more with the fact that they were living under a tyrannical regime that persecuted people for being publically critical of its political and economic system while keeping the majority in poverty.

When I visited the Soviet Union back in the 1980s, I didn't really see any overt, obvious signs of suffering or tyranny or anything that extreme. Nobody was starving, and I didn't see any mass roundups or anything like that. Sure, there was a certain degree of inconvenience and low quality goods, but no signs of famine or starvation or the kind of mass suffering that some anti-communists would have people believe.

They didn't seem to emphasize comfort and luxury as much as we do in the West. It was not what we would have called "first world" back then, but it wasn't "third world" either. They had nuclear weapons, a formidable military, and the first country capable of sending objects into space.

When I was there, most of what the people seemed to want from Westerners were pop culture items - music, clothing - anything that was considered popular in the West. They had a black market and a gray market, which were technically illegal, but no one seemed that all that worried about getting caught, since people were trading rubles for dollars right there on the street. I didn't see a strong, visible "police presence," nor did I encounter anyone who seemed terribly worried about being watched by the secret police.

The way most Westerners describe socialist or Marxist countries is analogous to how "Reefer Madness" portrayed the supposed "dangers" of marijuana. I'm not saying they were as "free" or "democratic" as some people believe the United States to be, but they weren't any kind of "evil empire" either. They have a different legal code than we do, just as many continental European nations have different codes and procedures than we have in the United States.

 

[Tambourine]

When I visited the Soviet Union back in the 1980s, I didn't really see any overt, obvious signs of suffering or tyranny or anything that extreme. Nobody was starving, and I didn't see any mass roundups or anything like that. Sure, there was a certain degree of inconvenience and low quality goods, but no signs of famine or starvation or the kind of mass suffering that some anti-communists would have people believe.

They didn't seem to emphasize comfort and luxury as much as we do in the West. It was not what we would have called "first world" back then, but it wasn't "third world" either. They had nuclear weapons, a formidable military, and the first country capable of sending objects into space.

When I was there, most of what the people seemed to want from Westerners were pop culture items - music, clothing - anything that was considered popular in the West. They had a black market and a gray market, which were technically illegal, but no one seemed that all that worried about getting caught, since people were trading rubles for dollars right there on the street. I didn't see a strong, visible "police presence," nor did I encounter anyone who seemed terribly worried about being watched by the secret police.

The way most Westerners describe socialist or Marxist countries is analogous to how "Reefer Madness" portrayed the supposed "dangers" of marijuana. I'm not saying they were as "free" or "democratic" as some people believe the United States to be, but they weren't any kind of "evil empire" either. They have a different legal code than we do, just as many continental European nations have different codes and procedures than we have in the United States.

I've talked mostly to people from outside the USSR, usually from Poland and former Czechoslovakia. If you were a known dissenter then your life definitely would have been a lot harder than if you were considered unimportant or even a party loyalist.

My comment about poverty was more related to relative poverty. I've never been told about starvation, only that opportunities weren't always that great. That said, in some areas things actually got worse economically after the fall of the Eastern Bloc.

 

[Stevicus]

I've talked mostly to people from outside the USSR, usually from Poland and former Czechoslovakia. If you were a known dissenter then your life definitely would have been a lot harder than if you were considered unimportant or even a party loyalist.

My comment about poverty was more related to relative poverty. I've never been told about starvation, only that opportunities weren't always that great. That said, in some areas things actually got worse economically after the fall of the Eastern Bloc.

If you dissent against the government or ruling class in any country, your life would definitely be a lot harder.

Even in the U.S., there were plenty of civil rights protesters who were harassed, jailed, and in some cases, killed outright. Even while our Constitution has always guaranteed freedom of speech and the right to dissent, throughout most of U.S. history, it was never really observed that faithfully. It was even worse in the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century. That doesn't mitigate anything done by the Soviet government, nor does it make it right. But it does mean we in the West have no room to talk in criticizing the Soviets on this particular issue.

I will note that, at least when compared with life under the Tsar, the Soviet government had built up and improved the quality of life for the vast majority of the population. The educational system improved by leaps and bounds; prior to the Revolution, the vast majority could neither read nor write. Communism changed all that in a relatively short period of time. Those who were old enough to remember always said that it was far better under Soviet rule than it ever was under the Tsar.

Apart from that, people will always make comparisons, but even that can be deceiving. A family living in an apartment in Moscow might look at sharecroppers in Mississippi and say "We have it better here in the Soviet Union than they do in the United States." Or one might look at communist Cuba and compare it with capitalist Guatemala and say "Communism is better than capitalism."