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Featured Woe to those through whom come stumbling blocks

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You wrote( in green): There's a play on words going on there which is less clear in the Koine Greek than it was in the Aramaic.

    Jesus renamed Simon "Cephas" (or "Kephas"), which was from the Aramaic and it means "rock" or "stone". However, when translating this from the Aramaic to the Greek, the translators ran across a problem because Greek is gender-sensitive. Therefore, "Petros", which is masculine, was used as Peter's new name because he was a man.

    And this should stand to common sense because it's quite obvious that Jesus changed Peter's name for some reason, and names in Hebrew not only are names but are also descriptors.

    Peter has a special designation in the NT, such as when told by Jesus to "feed my sheep..."). When the apostles are listed, Peter's name is almost always first, sometimes just saying "Peter and the others". Paul confronts Peter, not the others, over the issue of the circumcision of gentiles. It is Peter through his vision that ends the kosher Laws for those who convert. Etc.


    Sorry, I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church of the early 1960’s whereas the mass was in Latin, and bible reading by the peons was not encouraged. I had later heard my cousin was delegated as a reader, such as elder, and read the Church’s chosen epistle.

    As for Peter, he is not today called Cephas, he is called Petros (rock), and not Petras (foundation stone), which was for the actual rock the church was built on, which is not and was not Peter. (Isaiah 28:16). The misdirection was deliberate, in order to bring about the prophecies of the OT. (Matthew 5:17)

    If you had listened to Yeshua, he said he came to fulfill the “Law” and the “prophets” (Matthew 5:17). He chose Simon bar Jonas, and named him “rock” because he was fulfilling Isaiah 22:15-25), whereas Peter was the representation of Shebna, the “steward” of the “house of David” who had the “key” to the “house of David”, and carved “a resting place in the “rock”, and what he “opens no one will shut” (Isaiah 22:22), and “in that day”, he will “fall”, and anyone “hanging” on him, will be “cut off”. “In that day” is regard to the “day of the LORD” which is at the door (Matthew 24:33). The pope, Peter’s supposed heir, will “fall” and those hanging onto him will be “cut off” (Isaiah 22:25).

    As for the prophecy regarding Peter as the “worthless shepherd” who would not feed, care or tend the sheep, look to Zechariah 11:16-17, which was noted by John in John 21:16. Peter appears to fail in sets of threes. (Matthew 26:33) As for Peter being always the “first”, look to how Yeshua answered Peter’s question about his own rewards. Yeshua said, “the first shall be last and the last shall be first,. (Matthew 19:27-30) If you look at your NT, the last apostle chosen, the tax collector, Matthew, is the first you will see, and you will find 1 Peter and 2 Peter, with questionable authorship, at the end.

    As for the NT canon: Athanasius on the Canon of Scripture
     
    #81 2ndpillar, Jan 13, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  2. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    If I am taught to drive on the left in a country, and then begin driving on the right, that is 'doing my own thing'. If I am taught strict doctrines by Jesus, the apostles and the primary elders of the 1st century, that is my primary doctrine with is my authority for my faith; if then a church teaches things not in line with this, I shall resist and not accept their dogma.

    I thought this obvious.
    In this then, I either have a deciding authority, or I am a deciding authority, or they are. Choose just one.
    If you looked at a link about my study on this, it is clear that the body of teachings in letter or book form (scrolls even) were available to the 1st century Christians. This claim that it was created much later by the CC is false. They may have been instrumental in making a book form come to be in which all the various sources were compiled as one. But, that is the extend of it.
    I disagree. Unless, you can show what they don't relate to. They don't relate to the usage of a computer, but they don't need to.
    I am aware of the problems in many things. You should read Matthew chapter 24 and meditate on what that says. Here is Paul on that:
    Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.​
    You may also be aware that Jesus had the custom of going to the synagogues to preach, to speak on the word, its meanings. If I were to go to a Protestant church, Catholic church, JW church, LDS, etc - and go up to their podium to speak on some Biblical subject I knew they needed to change, do you think it would be more than 5 mins before I was arrested by police, or had 'bouncers' throw me out?!
    How sad. That is not how the 1st century church operated. There, they took turns and let others speak. Again, the Christian church is not very Christian anymore.
    I have my understanding of who the rock is. I agree with some who claim this rock to be Jesus himself.
     
  3. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    You read things as you like. I follow the example set forth:
    Acts 17:10-12 . . .. 11 Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes‧sa‧lo‧ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so. 12 Therefore many of them became believers, and so did not a few of the reputable Greek women and of the men. ​
    Thus a person needs to examine the scriptures by themselves, and act on what they think is true. End of story for that subject.
    Hosea 4:5-6 . . .. 6 My people will certainly be silenced, because there is no knowledge. Because the knowledge is what you yourself have rejected, I shall also reject you from serving as a priest to me; and [because] you keep forgetting the law of your God,. . .
    Matthew 15:7-9 . . ., 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’”​
    It should be quite clear here that each person is responsible for upholding the teachings of God, the doctrines of the Bible and not those of churches.

     
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The “Scriptures” referred to in your quote was in reference to the “Law” and the “prophets”, and not some NT book not written. The commands of men, would be referring the high and mighty decrees of the Pharisees, and scribes, as well as the Pharisee and scribe, the false prophet Paul along with his associates. As you quoted from Yeshua, it is in vain that you worship me. Yeshua is the Lord, not the LORD. You shall not have false gods before me. Your NT would have been published under the purview of men, and specifically, the daugher of Babylon.
     
  5. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Since it has been the pleasure of God to cause the Christians to become the people of his choice, your opinions are void and invalid.

    While Jesus chastised the teachers of the time for their disobedience, it is paramount that each of us know the scriptures personally and obey these individually no matter what any church teaches.

    You have the right to your opinion, and I to mine. Both shall get judged by Christ, God's elected judge.
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    It's easy to see, that you have no idea or understanding, what it means by a stumbling block.
    Seeing that your putting out stumbling blocks yourself.
     
    #86 Faithofchristian, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Seeing that you spoke about the law of sin, Can you explain exactly what the law of sin is ?
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I was quoting Paul. You might want to dig up his grave and ask him.

    1 John 3:4King James Version (KJV)

    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to explain yourself. Yeshua described “Peter” as a “stumbling block” (Matthew 16:23). He also said that at the “end of the age”, the “stumbling blocks” would be “gathered up” and thrown into the “furnace of fire” (Matthew 13:40-42). The “end of the age” would correspond to the “day of the LORD”, and would correspond to “in that day” in which the holder of the key of the house of David, would “fall” (Isaiah 22:15-25), and those hanging onto him would be “cut off”. We are now at the “end of the age”, and the “tares” are subject to being “gathered up” (Matthew 13:39-40), or in the case of Matthew 24:40, they will be as in the “day that Noah entered the ark”, “taken”, and the other one “is”, or left to breathe on.

    Did you read the article on Liberal Hawaii. It appears they felt that that day had come. A lot of underpants apparently would have to be washed.
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The choice you are speaking about is found in Zechariah 11:4, "Thus says the LORD my God: 'Pasture the flock doomed to slaughter' ". Zechariah 11:7, "I took for myself two staffs; the one called Favor (Paul), and the other I called Union (Peter); so I pastured the flock". Better known as the "adulteress" in Hosea 3.

    As for the great white throne judgment, the dead are raised and judged according to their deeds. (Revelation 20:13). Your worry would be more immenint. The "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31), whereas those with the "mark of the beast" will drink from the cup of God's wrath. (Revelation 14:10).
     
  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    But why would you quote someone or something and not know what your quoting.
    That's what called a stumbling block.
     
  12. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Every act you do every word you say is judged. When you die, the tally is made. There are those who are entered into the book of life, and those who are entered into the book of life of the Lord. The others who are not found in these books go into the Lake of fire on judgment day.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Here you go again, not knowing what your quoting, there is no where that Jesus describe Peter as a stumbling block. In Matthew 16:23.
    Therefore your putting out stumbling blocks.
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You do know, that you do make yourself look very foolish, quoting things, in the which you have no idea what they are saying.
    As to how you get Paul and Peter out of Zechariah 11:7 is anyone's guess.

    You really show yourself as being very foolishness.
    This is the very reason why people view the Bible as being foolishness, is because of people like you, that have no knowledge of what your talking about.

    Therefore it's not the bible, that is foolishness, but people like yourself. That are the foolish ones.
     
  15. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You are absolutely right about what you said.

    As Christ Jesus said in Matthew 12:36-37
    "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak; They shall give account thereof in the day of Judgement.
    For by your words you shalt be justified, and by your words you shalt be condemned"

    Therefore by their own words, shall judge them and condemn them.
     
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  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Not only was the term "stumbling block used", "Satan" was used as well. I again suggest you get a new translation, it couldn't hurt.

    Matthew 16:23New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on a God’s interests, but man’s.”
     
  17. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Why do you keep digging a hole for yourself?

    Matthew 5:22, “whoever shall say, “You fool, shall be guilty enough to go into the hell of fire”. You need to slow down and take a deep breath.

    As for Zechariah 11:7, Peter and Paul would refer to the “two staffs” taken to pasture the “flock”. That “flock”, being the “flock doomed to slaughter” (Zechariah 11:4). There were 3 shepherds involved, who “I annihilated” in “one month”/generation (Zechariah 11:8). One of those “shepherds” was Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:13), which quote was referred to in Matthew 27:9-10.
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    As you judge others, so shall you shall be judged. The “elect” are written in the “book of life” from the “foundation of the world”. It is those not written in that book who will “worship” the beast. (Revelation 13:8 You are looking at the wrong time line. Your concern should the upcoming “day of the LORD”, not the white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12). In that judgment, it is your deeds which are judged. In the “day of the LORD” judgment, you will wish to die, and not be able (Revelation 9:6), on the other, you will be mercifully extinguished in the “second death”. (Revelation 20:14-15) An exception would be the "false prophet" (Revelation 20:10)

    The Hollywood types and the deep state are being judged with respect to how they judged Trump. You don't have to die to be judged.
     
    #98 2ndpillar, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  19. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The quotes from Paul are accurate. The fact that Paul is all things to all men, and a fraud, and in that case he may be truthful, but his doctrines are of the darkness (Isaiah 8:20). Before you follow the confessed foremost sinner to hell, you might want to be more introspective. Did he in fact persecute the messengers of God, and accordingly, those who claim a relationship with him, being condemned to have the guilt of the blood of the rightous fall on them (Matthew 23:35)? I can see why you might have trouble sleeping at night.

    And why didn't you answer your own question?
     
    #99 2ndpillar, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="

    How sad. That is not how the 1st century church operated. There, they took turns and let others speak. Again, the Christian church is not very Christian anymore.

    I have my understanding of who the rock is. I agree with some who claim this rock to be Jesus himself.[/QUOTE]


    There was nothing "Christian" about the actual followers of Yeshua. And the "rock" is the "Word" (Isaiah 28:15-16). Yeshua is simply the Word made flesh, who came to fulfill the Word, the Law and the prophets, which has yet to be fulfilled at this point in time.
     
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