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Featured Woe to those through whom come stumbling blocks

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Paul goes on further and states: Romans 7:17-19 (New American Standard Bible (NASB)) 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. That statement puts him in line with his “Christian” followers. On the other hand, those who have “repented” and confessed their sins, and have produced fruit in keeping with that repentance, and baptized in the spirit (Matthew 3), and sought and found “His kingdom” (Matthew 6:33) and “His righteousness”, have been reborn, and have produced a “new wine skin”, and are unlike Paul and his followers, and who according to 1 John 3:8-9, “the one who practices sin is of the devil…. And “no one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God”. They have repented of sin, and do not twist the Word of God to fit the narrative of their false prophet, and hardened hearts.

    As for the duped, those who have been “deceived” by the “beast with two horns like a lamb” (Revelation 13:14), which would include “those who dwell on the earth”, those of the “nations” that should survive the “fire”, they will then confess “Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood” (Jeremiah 16:19). Their “covenant with death shall be canceled” (Isaiah 28:18),
    which is to say, they will have no “twinkling” experience.
     
    #21 2ndpillar, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  2. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    But as you have noticed, the “tares” do not agree that they are tares, and feel that they have a “pact with Sheol” (Isaiah 28:18), and will escape death by means of their being “twinkled”. They don’t realize that their “pact with Sheol/death shall not stand” (Isaiah 28:18) They have chosen "darkness" over "light" and their answers/debate shows just that.
     
  3. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    How did you come to the place where the little ones aren't the children Jesus had at the moment He made His pronouncement of woe to paedophiles, to say that the epistle writers were wicked?

    What proof do you have that some, not all, of the NT books aren't God's Word?
     
  4. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    This biblical criticism you are afraid of addresses the stumbling blocks for today's believers, who, being of sound faith have no reason to fear questioning.
     
  5. RedDragon94

    RedDragon94 Feeling Fine I guess

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    I've had doubts about the Bible before, and I've been a stumbling block before because of it, but I can see the error of my ways.

    How can you rebel against the Apostles? Either they got it right as far as what the Gospel is or we don't have a clue.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You have the Word of God, which is the Law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17), and you have the NT, which was edited and published by the “daughter of Babylon”(Zechariah 2:7) & (Revelation 18:4). You either come out of “her” or you suffer of her “plagues”. Your NT canon comes from the Athanasius, the Roman bishop of Alexandria, who worked along side Constantine, the “beast with two horns like a lamb” (Revelation 13:11), who was to “deceive those who dwell on the earth” (Revelation 13:14) As for “apostles”, was Judas Iscariot an apostle, and did he not fulfill Zechariah 11:13? Did not Yeshua call Peter “Satan, and a stumbling block to me”? Did not Peter fulfill Zechariah 11:16-17 as pointed out in John 21:17?

    As stated by Yeshua in the parable of the tare and the wheat, the wheat seed, the good seed, is the “word of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:19). The “tare” seed is the seed of the evil one/devil, and is the gospel of grace, which is supposedly based on underserved favor of God, which is antithetical to the gospel of the kingdom, which is built using “justice” and “righteousness”(Isaiah 28:15-16). Paul’s message includes the lie of the serpent/devil/Satan, as in “you surely shall not die” (Genesis 3:4), the same message given by Paul, in that you surely shall not die, but be “twinkled instead”.

    Keep in mind, the wheat seed and the tare seed will be planted in the same field (Matthew 13:25), and the tares would be protected from being plucked up by Yeshua (Matthew 13:29), until the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:38-42). The field will be in the form of a book, called the NT. You will have the good mixed with the bad.
     
    #26 2ndpillar, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  7. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Usually, it is Muslims who attack Paul. Your attack is surprising me.

    Well, it seems you know what Paul says, however, if you do, you also seem to be ignoring things he says about this subject. This subject is better studied over a little time and not by relying on faulty memory in a 2 min answer. Well, I will give it my 2 min answer.

    Paul
    Romans 2:3-7 . . ., O man, while you judge those who practice such things and yet you do them, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and long-suffering, because you do not know that the kindly [quality] of God is trying to lead you to repentance? 5 But according to your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and of the revealing of God’s righteous judgment. 6 And he will render to each one according to his works: 7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good;
    Romans 2:8-9 8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness there will be wrath and anger, 9 tribulation and distress, upon the soul of every man who works what is injurious, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
    The portion quoted here in both red and blue, clearly shows that Paul condemns what Jesus did, and not only that, that he also speaks about repentance.
    Romans 6:1-2 6 Consequently, what shall we say? Shall we continue in sin, that undeserved kindness may abound? 2 Never may that happen! Seeing that we died with reference to sin, how shall we keep on living any longer in it?
    Romans 6:12-13 12 Therefore do not let sin continue to rule as king in YOUR mortal bodies that YOU should obey their desires. 13 Neither go on presenting YOUR members to sin as weapons of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, also YOUR members to God as weapons of righteousness.
    Romans 6:21-23 21 What, then, was the fruit that YOU used to have at that time? Things of which YOU are now ashamed. For the end of those things is death. 22 However, now, because YOU were set free from sin but became slaves to God, YOU are having YOUR fruit in the way of holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages sin pays is death, . . .
    As seen in the verses from Romans ch. 6, Paul clearly tells Christians that if they continue in sin that they shall reap the wage of sin, namely, death. Nowhere does Paul encourage anyone to continue in sin. His discourse on the law is an entirely different subject that I won't touch on this subject.
    Romans 8:12-14 12 So, then, brothers, we are under obligation, not to the flesh to live in accord with the flesh; 13 for if YOU live in accord with the flesh YOU are sure to die; but if YOU put the practices of the body to death by the spirit, YOU will live. 14 For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons.
    Again Paul is seeing condemning those who live according to the desires of our imperfect flesh, the practice of sin. The way to life is clearly stated as abstaining from the practice of the fleshly desires and being led instead by the spirit of God as the only way of obtaining the gift of life and avoiding the wages of sin. This theme of practicing the will of God, living according to his spirit is stressed throughout:

    Romans 12:1-2 12 Consequently I entreat YOU by the compassions of God, brothers, to present YOUR bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with YOUR power of reason. 2 And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.​

    I find no apostate teaching in Paul's material. Instead, he expands and explains things no one else does, giving us a perspective on the temple and holy things, how they are understood in ways we could not understand on our own.

    But, each to his own. You are welcome to continue this if you have other things or more objections on this subject.



     
  8. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus also said this though:
    But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. (Luke 22:32)

    Peter was a man of God and so was Paul.
     
  9. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    If you have specific questions instead of just telling me that the Bible is invalid, go ahead. This other stuff is just trash, evolutionary trash from those who do not believe in a god.
     
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  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    You're twisting Paul's words. He's talking about sins that cannot be helped. And you wouldn't know anything about spiritual warfare or how demons attack men of God like Paul with supernatural evil. So that only the grace of God holds them up.
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Your presumptions are based on the canon of the Roman bishop of Alexandria. You are building your house on a leader of a daughter of Babylon, who conspired with Constantine, “the beast with two horns like a lamb”, at his convened Council of Nicaea. Not a good choice. On the other hand, anything not in line with the Law and the prophets is from darkness and has “no dawn” (Isaiah 8:20).
     
  12. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    We all fail. Peter failed more than once, and so have I. What I like to contemplate is David's failure. He failed truly, yet, being repentant was forgiven though punished much. Punishment never fails to happen.
     
  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    If one resist the devil, he will flee (James 4:7). Apparently no one was holding Paul up, for he apparently did the “very thing I do not wish to do”, and am “serving the law” “of sin” “with my flesh”. (Romans 7:25), and “thanks God” for the privilege. (Romans 7:25). Paul’s gift giver was Satan (2 Corinthians 12:7).

    James 4:7-10 King James Version (KJV) Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
     
  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    And I betcha ya can't even see the inconsistencies between your two posts.

    Here, maybe read this: Biblical canon - Wikipedia
     
  15. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Peter did fail, as well as Judas Iscariot, but they were meant to fail to fulfill Scripture (Zechariah 11:13 & 17). The punishment for sin is death, and David died, and so did Paul, although Paul preached that "we" would be "twinkled". Of course he died, and that prophesy was false. King David will return (Ekekiel 37:24), but the "false prophet" will only return as an "unclean spirit" (Revelation 16:13-16).
     
  16. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Judas became damned. Peter did not.
     
  17. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Satan will take any advantage he can against a man like Paul who is turning the world upside down. (Acts 17:6) Just as Satan could not do anything to Job until God gave him permission; God allowed satan to send a messenger against Paul. God always has a reason for allowing these things to happen to His elect. God allowed it to keep Paul humble because of the abundance of revelations he was receiving. As Paul said knowledge puffs up. (1 Cor. 8:1) So Paul was thankful that he was often tormented by this demon because it allowed him to receive and share the revelations of God without becoming too proud. And you're forgetting that Paul was a chosen vessel that must suffer great things for the gospel's sake. (Acts 9:15-16) As far as satan was concerned Paul was on top of his most wanted list. Peter was up there also. Both were martyred and this is satan's way as we saw with Jesus; satan will always turn to murder if he cannot stop the man of God any other way.

    You say if one resists the devil then he will flee from you. True, and Paul was enabled to cast demons out of people. (Acts 16:17-18) but how often and how greatly must you resist the devil? See, some people more than others and some fights are harder than others. Paul was not fighting for himself but as he went into different areas as an apostle he encountered and battled those principalities. These principalities are able to even hinder angelic beings sent from God for a time. (Daniel 10:20) and are not to be underestimated.
     
  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Paul was a spiritual man. He said that "we who are alive and remain" So, to Paul's mind there is one body and all of them were one in Christ Jesus. So "we" is those in the body who are alive. It was not even a prophesy, but a teaching. The King David in Ezekiel 37:24 is clearly Jesus.
     
  19. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    I never stated, nor would I ever state that the Bible is invalid. The Bible, in its entirety, is Truth. But it is not dead, it is living and active. To give to it a simplistic, literalist interpretation is a form of intellectual suicide.
     
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  20. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    Each has to make his own bed and sleep in it. It will all come out in the wash, in the end - showing each of us what is up and down.

    If you should like my perspective on Biblical things, just ask.
     
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