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Featured Without the Shedding of Blood There is No Forgiveness of ...

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by ZenMonkey, Nov 2, 2019.

  1. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    So then the blood being required should not be taken literally either then? At which point do you say it's literal or figurative? Is it the same point others do?
     
  2. leov

    leov Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we all bleed, but we are not our physical body, we live in it.
     
  3. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    The shedding of blood for the redemption from sin is an extremely serious thing. Israelites were required to sacrifice their best animals to be redeemed from sin. This pointed forward to the ultimate sacrifice for redemption and forgiveness, the shedding of the blood of Jesus
    Christ.

    It isn't vindictive, it is designed to show the extreme seriousness of sin, and God's view of it. In every case the sinner doesn't pay for their sin, an innocent does, once again affirming Gods provision of forgiveness and not holding the sinner accountable.

    It isn't a game, it is literally deadly serious. Christs shed blood is the agent f my salvation, His blood shed, for mine, His death, for mine, His perfect life for my sinful life.

    Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin.
     
  4. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    It is literal.
     
  5. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    Menstrual cycles ... a shedding of blood and also the very fact that we are all able to and do bleed in life. So, to live it is required also that we bleed, or at least that we're able to, and as I stated prior ... a woman's monthly cycle, so ... you gotta live and have life to live and to ever if ever ... umm ... need forgiveness, which is actually the question. Do I, you, they truly need to be forgiven for living life? I guess that depends on the individual and if they themselves feel as if they need to forgive themselves. It's not my place to offer nor extend forgiveness to anyone, aside from myself. I'm not required to, so ... with that being said, am I vengeful? Maybe that's the question. Maybe not, but ... What if? What if when it comes to everyone? Then again, if I became vengeful I would be required to live with what I did in vengeance and then well ... I might feel the need to be forgiven, but as of this moment, I do not feel that need.
     
  6. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    I plan on dying one day myself, which is an act of giving my all for my life. No need for someone else to "suffer" or die for me. I'm perfectly able and willing to accept what is due to me one day. It's a wage ya know? Something earned for living umm, well ... as I am I guess. I don't think it can be avoided either way, so ... one less on the docket when it comes to me.
     
  7. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    Ok ... :)
     
  8. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Well, it certainly can be avoided.

    It is really quite simple.

    Imagine how you will feel when, by your choice, you are cosigned to eternal oblivion, when others who made the choice you could have made, will live happily forever.

    I certainly have hope that I will not have to face that terror.
     
  9. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    Honestly, I'm not worried about tomorrow or what comes after. I have enough to worry about today and a life to be lived that was given to me for a reason. I would hope you understand the concept ... you know .. of faith. Faith, mountains, itsy bisty, teeny weeny, particles of a grain of sand type of mountain moving faith. The type where death has no sting nor the grave victory kind of ... it's coming either way, so why worry. I prefer or at least I would like to honor the life I have been given instead of burying this one for worry of one that might or might not come after the one I already have in the present. Life is a gift that far too many squander away in worry of what might come tomorrow. So, the choice I made in the 90's that has been ongoing since and they years I wasted ... waiting and running from the life I was gifted is now my main concern, yet I don't feel shameful anymore for not living it abundantly.

    I do my best now, and I'll continue to do so ... the best I am able. It's sad that some just wish to kick us when we're up and then also when we're down, all for sake of the potential for something that might come tomorrow ... again ... more waiting and wasting and hiding instead of living, which does much more than just irritate me a little bit. It's almost as if life, a gift from God, gifted to me is being sabotaged by those who .... think I'd be better off not living it and instead insist that I wait for tomorrow, and then to top that off, to want me to worry about tomorrow, even though Jesus instructed me not to worry about tomorrow. So ... with that said ... Do YOU think I should forgive those who insist I wait and waste the gift I've already been given?
     
  10. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Who insists you waste your life? Not I.

    I don;'t worry about death, I have been there, I "died" in the hospital, but was brought back, it wasn;'t an unpleasant experience.

    If you feel that living a Christian life is a waste, then I feel sorry for you.,
    ,
     
  11. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    I can be passive to hell and it burns itself.
     
  12. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    That's just it ... I am a Christian, and as a Christian I live a Christian life, just not one that many Christians would be ok with, or one that they would openly approve of. Here's a truth about me. I waited 16 years ... I waited and wasted 16 years for someone ... just one person to stand by me, grow old with me, and that 16 years came and went and I guess I could be too picky or too demanding ... I don't know. I require open, honest, sensual, intense sexuality, I require someone or people I can trust ... 4 years later, here I am making my exodus back to Eden. Making my exodus back home to where I've always belonged, and here's the thing ... Heart hurt is some of the worst kind of hurt to be hurt by, and since I've been denied my family, friends, a single woman to love with everything in me, I now choose a different kind of love, which is based more on friendship, and less based on one one one monogamous intimacy or side by side growing old together type of relationship. So, my "Christian" life now entails living my life, getting back to where I belong, and remaining true to my faith, which can be summed up in what I'm about to write. I'm accountable for my life, I'll die when I'm done, and I enjoy and find pleasure in what and who I enjoy and find pleasure in. In short, life is short. I don't get nor do I expect a hereafter so this gift I call the present ,,, moment is all I truly have and all I';m truly ever guarandteed. I don't like wasting my life, yet some .... yes some do seem to enjoy wasting it for me.
     
  13. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    I like this interpretation better
    `God gave you a pure heart ... the best gift to give to God is a purified heart`
     
  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Who decided it should be read literally, rather than metaphorically? And why does someone have to understand it literally in order for it to have meaning?
     
  15. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

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    Wow. Ummm, no.

    You've got this picture entirely messed up.

    First off, women don't "shed blood" the lining of their uterus thins. It thins because for that month the uterus is not needed to be thick, because there is no pregnancy. What you are actually seeing is less blood shed, and more a dam lowering its gates because that excess collected needs to release. You see, this blood has hormones the body doesn't need any more.

    The whole deal where Abraham sacrifice his son, then proceeds to sacrifice his own son... Unfortunately, you have the story wrong.

    You see, the first thing God did here was offer an animal instead of Isaac. Of course, you don't feel better about this story as it still looks like a cruel test. Until you realize, that God effectively created/summoned this animal simply so Abraham wouldn't have to offer his own son. God offered his own lamb in place of Isaac.

    Despite the Jews viewing a woman's cycle as an "unclean period" (hey I never said these people were perfect) blood was used in the ritual/magic trick whereupon the sacrifice of an animal turned cloth white ( I'm guessing more the magic trick part, but God did seem to do nore miracles in those days). This was intended to remove sin, as a practice of atonement. But I want you to think about all of these animals killed. The people of Israel began to lose connection with the significance of what they were doing. "It's not my child, after all" is the general attitude as they callously put to death a sheep or a goat. So you begin to see God say things through his prophets like "I do not delight in burnt offerings." The people of Israel paid this no mind. Until God gave his only Son as blood sacrifice for atonement of sins, and they no longer had a Temple to perform sacrifices in.

    Before we discuss God giving his only Son, I want you to think about this. Around the world, babies are getting aborted every day. This is a sacrifice that has no purpose other than to remove a mother's shame. So while you can be mad at God for now, you must also be mad at the mothers who should do such a thing. And in some cases, the fathers that pressure them into this, to hide their affairs.

    Get a nice image of this.

    Got it? Good, now let's review the Trinity. Father, Son, and Spirit are all God. This means, that you will find marks on the hands of God as well as his Son. In order to wipe sins away, God himself was put into the path of harm. God became the Sacrifice for the sake of these people who would continue to kill innocent animals for their guilt.

    Now, remember that vivid abortion picture I gave you? I want you to throw it away. Because this is not a child sacrifice at all. It's the decision of humans to kill this son. Jesus says "forgive them for they know not what they do" but he accepted his death. Instead of a abortion, I want you to think of a child put at the doorstep of a family. Jesus was basically God inside a human body, adopted by humans. So we have this nice sweet picture of a doorstep baby... only the doorstep is Jeffrey Dahmer. No, Mary and Joseph were decent, but the world Jesus was adopted into was cruel. The priests, the pillars of the community gave him over like all those other animals, to be tortured and killed. Whipped until he bled, made to wear a crown of thorns. And then hung above others on a pole to slowly die.

    God isn't some jerk who demanded child sacrifice of his son. Humans did the sacrificing, and God did the suffering.
     
    #35 Samantha Rinne, Nov 3, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  16. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    I'm sorry but I'll go ahead and admit that I didn't read your entire post. I stated at face value, the statement seems vengeful and with the whole God is wrath, vengeance is mine, and the where the bible states that it is a frightful thing to be delivered into the hands of a angry god passages, most would understand my op and why I approached the subject like I did.

    As for the shedding of blood and menstrual cycles ... Shedding doesn't always entail harm or violence ... like a snake shedding its skin, there's nothing harmful or violent about menstrual cycles. On the other hand, there's much violence and wickedness attached to Jesus being crucified and whipped to a bloody mess before hand. What I'm suggesting is this: What happened to Jesus wasn't necessary, aside from him giving himself up to the authorities so his friends, the 12 disciples whom he made it abundantly clear to that they were his friends, and why he called them friends ... in short, he saved his friends lives by giving himself up to the authorities.

    "There is no forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood". I would suggest that we'd have no life at all without woman, we would have never been formed at all without them, we'd have never been born without them, many would have never known what it means to be nurtured without them, and menstrual cycles is a lot like out with the old, in with the new, which I'm pretty sure I made mention of. It might be viewed much like milk on a store shelf. I prefer fresh over the milk that has already ran through it's expiration date. I think the term we're looking for is "fertility" , being that that's pretty much what is being discarded during those cycles ... the less fertile eggs and/or cells that are, when more fertile, responsible for the formation of life, which, by the way, is necessary to even need to be forgiven for anything ... you know ... to umm live.
     
  17. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    It depends upon what meaning is taken away from it.

    You can choose to read the owners manual for your car as metaphorical as well, why, I don´t know, but I guess it is up to you.

    The writers and thus, ultimately, God decided it was to be read as literal.
     
  18. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    You say you are a Christian, yet you apparently deny that Christ was telling the truth when He spoke over and over again about life after death, isn´t that a paradox ? I am not judging, just trying to understand.
     
  19. ZenMonkey

    ZenMonkey St. James VII

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    I stated that I don't know and don't care and that I do believe there is, but also that it won't be me as I understand me today who will be there. If there is, and again, I don't know, then I will be an entirely new creation. Think of a corn cob, take a kernel from the cob, then put it in the ground. The kernel goes away, a new plant grows and begins to create more cobs of corn with many kernels on each cob.

    Pretend you're a cob of corn, and when it's your time to be buried, like the kernel of corn, you will likewise begin a new journey as a new creation, yet remain what you already are ... only you will no longer be you. you'll be a new creation entirely ... just like the corn.
     
  20. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    They did? Can you show me where it says it should be read literally, as opposed to metaphorically? Does it say that definitively somewhere?
     
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