Without the Holy Spirit...

[Nakosis]

You being of course one of the few.
As they all say.

Kind of my issue.
There was a time I thought I was being guided by the Holy Spirit. So the interpretation which seemed right to me, I must have been inspired to this knowledge by the Holy Spirit.
Being a honest person honestly seeking and asking God for guidance. If you ask, you will receive right.
Matt 7:
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If we believe this and do these things then we must be able to trust the understanding received.
Unfortunately I find the subconscious mind by itself is capable of inspiring these answers without any divine intervention.

It seems obviously to me why there exists so many different interpretations.
Believers constantly feed religious theology into their subconscious mind. The subconscious mind has plenty of information to autonomously create thoughts to feed into believers conscious awareness.

Why should they not, based on their teaching, accept these thoughts as divine revelation?

I used to do read Tarot cards. You read, study, learn. At first you look up the meanings in a book. Eventually, you feed enough information into your subconscious mind you no longer have to consciously think about the correct interpretation for the cards. Your subconscious mind gives you a running narrative about the person's life, their future etc... If you are not consciously aware of thinking the thought for your self, where else could the thought have originated except the spiritual/divine realm.

 

[Audie]

Kind of my issue.
There was a time I thought I was being guided by the Holy Spirit. So the interpretation which seemed right to me, I must have been inspired to this knowledge by the Holy Spirit.
Being a honest person honestly seeking and asking God for guidance. If you ask, you will receive right.
Matt 7:
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If we believe this and do these things then we must be able to trust the understanding received.
Unfortunately I find the subconscious mind by itself is capable of inspiring these answers without any divine intervention.

It seems obviously to me why there exists so many different interpretations.
Believers constantly feed religious theology into their subconscious mind. The subconscious mind has plenty of information to autonomously create thoughts to feed into believers conscious awareness.

Why should they not, based on their teaching, accept these thoughts as divine revelation?

I used to do read Tarot cards. You read, study, learn. At first you look up the meanings in a book. Eventually, you feed enough information into your subconscious mind you no longer have to consciously think about the correct interpretation for the cards. Your subconscious mind gives you a running narrative about the person's life, their future etc... If you are not consciously aware of thinking the thought for your self, where else could the thought have originated except the spiritual/divine realm.

I spent many days stewing about which
grad school to go to.

Finally it just came to me, the Decision!

I wasnt even thinking about it at the time!

Being me, I went back to stewing.
In a few days it happened again!
But now its a different school.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Can one interpret the Bible?

Some claim the Bible interprets itself, which I disagree with.
I interpret the Bible. Usually taking the plainest most mundane meaning. However I can't guarantee this mundane simple meaning to have been the intent of the original author.

Still I have heard from many, making many claims about the true meaning of scripture. I've given up trying to reconcile the numerous claims made by those claiming via some unknown authority, their interpretation.

Should non-believers simply pack up their bags and move to some other topic when it comes to understanding the Bible, or can anyone read the Bible using common language skills and understand it.

Without the Holy Spirit the Bible can not be interpreted.

The Holy Spirit is the Messenger, as such any explanation they give of the Bible, is valid Scripture. Some of the followers are gifted with insight into those explanations, but in is not a common gift.

Now it comes down to a choice, do we choose to accept a Messenger and the explanations they give.

Regards Tony

 

[Link]

Kind of my issue.
There was a time I thought I was being guided by the Holy Spirit. So the interpretation which seemed right to me, I must have been inspired to this knowledge by the Holy Spirit.
Being a honest person honestly seeking and asking God for guidance. If you ask, you will receive right.
Matt 7:
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If we believe this and do these things then we must be able to trust the understanding received.
Unfortunately I find the subconscious mind by itself is capable of inspiring these answers without any divine intervention.

It seems obviously to me why there exists so many different interpretations.
Believers constantly feed religious theology into their subconscious mind. The subconscious mind has plenty of information to autonomously create thoughts to feed into believers conscious awareness.

Why should they not, based on their teaching, accept these thoughts as divine revelation?

I used to do read Tarot cards. You read, study, learn. At first you look up the meanings in a book. Eventually, you feed enough information into your subconscious mind you no longer have to consciously think about the correct interpretation for the cards. Your subconscious mind gives you a running narrative about the person's life, their future etc... If you are not consciously aware of thinking the thought for your self, where else could the thought have originated except the spiritual/divine realm.

Tarot cards don't work like that.

They tend to be diverse (contradict each other) and yet people doing them have pin point accuracy.

This is not because it's from God, but spirits/jinn are at work here. They also watch humans and know about them.

To me it's better not to go them because you are inviting Jinn and sorcerers to your life and it may benefit you but may harm you.

It's better to go to God and his guidance and trust in him.

 

[Nakosis]

Tarot cards don't work like that.

They tend to be diverse (contradict each other) and yet people doing them have pin point accuracy.

This is not because it's from God, but spirits/jinn are at work here. They also watch humans and know about them.

To me it's better not to go them because you are inviting Jinn and sorcerers to your life and it may benefit you but may harm you.

It's better to go to God and his guidance and trust in him.

Yes, well I started it mostly for fun.
Then folks started telling me how accurate I was when telling them about their life.
It became very easy with a certainty I shouldn't have.
This actually scared me off at the time to think I was actually divining into someone else's life.
So put the cards down long ago.

 

[Clara Tea]

Can one interpret the Bible?

Some claim the Bible interprets itself, which I disagree with.
I interpret the Bible. Usually taking the plainest most mundane meaning. However I can't guarantee this mundane simple meaning to have been the intent of the original author.

Still I have heard from many, making many claims about the true meaning of scripture. I've given up trying to reconcile the numerous claims made by those claiming via some unknown authority, their interpretation.

Should non-believers simply pack up their bags and move to some other topic when it comes to understanding the Bible, or can anyone read the Bible using common language skills and understand it.

Attorney for the W. Bush Adminsitration, John Woo (professor of law at Chapman University) redefined the word "torture" so that no torture ever did or ever could exist. This got war criminal, George W. Bush off the hook, sort of. President W. Bush said "don't judge me by the current polls, judge me by how history records me." Then the CIA edited Wikipedia. Now, if you look up George W. Bush it says that he "handled criticism" about torture. Isn't that what they could also say about Adolf Hitler and his gang of murderous Nazis?

Lawyers want to make big issues look small, and small issues look big. Redefining is another way of lying. We could redefine white to be black, and up to be down, and me to be smart (hmm....something wrong with that last one).

The author of Revelation (a chapter of the bible) knew that liars redefine and alter meanings. This is why it says, in Revelation, itself, that he who changes the meaning of Revelation will be written out of the book of life forever, and tossed into the lake of fire of the bottomless pit of hell.

Some say that the bible must be interpreted by each person, because the meanings are different for everyone. It certainly seems as though there are many versions of the same bible.

But, many modern preachers now alter the meaning of Revelation, and insist that there is some other, hitherto undiscovered, city (or state of mind) called Babylon, and the city of Babylon that has been where it is for thousands of years is not the same as Babylon of the bible.

Preachers have to lie about Babylon, and alter the meaning of Revelation (and thereby, preachers must burn in the fires of hell forever), otherwise, it will be generally known that President GHW Bush and President W. Bush are demons from hell and set in motion the end of the world, and the United States (according to Revelation 17:`8) is the Whore of Babylon.

One can't follow Satan without ended up in hell.

CONCLUSION:

Some things must be interpreted by all correctly, and the location of Babylon, and the psychic predictions of Revelation must be correct, and everyone must agree that they are correct. Any other answer would result in people burning in hell for all eternity. Minor details can be misinterpreted, but not major details that could end the world. God said that if we fight in Iraq, he would end the world.

 

[Clara Tea]

Kind of my issue.
There was a time I thought I was being guided by the Holy Spirit. So the interpretation which seemed right to me, I must have been inspired to this knowledge by the Holy Spirit.
Being a honest person honestly seeking and asking God for guidance. If you ask, you will receive right.
Matt 7:
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If we believe this and do these things then we must be able to trust the understanding received.
Unfortunately I find the subconscious mind by itself is capable of inspiring these answers without any divine intervention.

It seems obviously to me why there exists so many different interpretations.
Believers constantly feed religious theology into their subconscious mind. The subconscious mind has plenty of information to autonomously create thoughts to feed into believers conscious awareness.

Why should they not, based on their teaching, accept these thoughts as divine revelation?

I used to do read Tarot cards. You read, study, learn. At first you look up the meanings in a book. Eventually, you feed enough information into your subconscious mind you no longer have to consciously think about the correct interpretation for the cards. Your subconscious mind gives you a running narrative about the person's life, their future etc... If you are not consciously aware of thinking the thought for your self, where else could the thought have originated except the spiritual/divine realm.

Some psychics use props to help them concentrate. The famous psychic Edgar Cayce used to use a brass bucket of water. The famous psychic Nostradomas sometimes used a bucket of water or a blue gem called lapis lazuli.

All of these props don't really do much except focus the minds (concentrate better). The minds are the real instruments of psychic information.

Some people, particularly scientists, insist that astrology is ridiculous, and that the motion of planets won't effect things on earth. Well, they do have a gravitational influence (more so than you think), but even that doesn't do much to earth. However, it isn't the motion of planets that affects our lives, it is the motion of planets that acts as a clock.

Let me explain....if you set your alarm for an hour before work, it would ring, give you time to shower, eat, and drive. But there is nothing magical or mystical about an alarm clock.

Nor is there anything magical or mystical about the motion of planets. They do, however, act the same way as hands on a clock. So, if a psychic knew, precisely, when an even would occur, they could write it down, and describe the time that the event would occur.

For example, if Venus moves to a certain constellation, it might take months to do it. That is like a clock, telling you that some event is about to happen then (and only the psychic was able to predict what that event was).

Tarot card interpretations, I believe, are a matter of using the human mind to understand the meaning, but, I believe that the Tarot cards, themselves, are not magical or mystical, but the human mind comes up with the predictions. To some extent, certain cards are drawn, but the meaning of those cards is a matter of human interpretation.

 

[Link]

I believe that the Tarot cards, themselves, are not magical or mystical, but the human mind comes up with the predictions.

Maybe, from what I know, they have to do some rituals and relationship with the cards. The cards themselves have to be researched and some rituals done. The person builds a deck. Sometimes some or all of it is family inherited.

 

[blü 2]

Can one interpret the Bible?

Largely, yes. Problems arise with difficult words and the possibility of missed allusions, but that can happen even with modern languages.

Some claim the Bible interprets itself, which I disagree with.

'Interprets itself'? Do you mean, 'Means what it says'? If not, isn't the meaning a matter for best impartial expert decision?

can anyone read the Bible using common language skills and understand it.

I use the Revised Standard Version, since people far more expert than I say it's a good impartial translation. (Ehrman said in 2012, "I think the NRSV is the best translation of the Bible available. And I especially like it in a study edition, such as the HarperCollins Study Bible.")

If you can have confidence in your translation, then you'll have a fair idea of what the original says, and the rest is up to you.

 

[Clara Tea]

I can't speak for the intepretation of the bible alone, but in general if we look at all religious texts, each person who study and following/practice the teaching will have a certain level of understanding or wisdom of what the teaching means.
But no human are at the same exact level, so you will always find variations when people speak of the "true meaning" of spiritual teaching.
Each person just don't understand it exactly the same, and by that cant give just one answer to a question.

An other thing is :how was the question asked? There are variations in how to ask the same question too.

Many factors to take in to the answer.

Questions often engender several more questions. Answers are easy....getting the right question is difficult.

 

[Clara Tea]

Without the Holy Spirit the Bible can not be interpreted.

The Holy Spirit is the Messenger, as such any explanation they give of the Bible, is valid Scripture. Some of the followers are gifted with insight into those explanations, but in is not a common gift.

Now it comes down to a choice, do we choose to accept a Messenger and the explanations they give.

Regards Tony

By chance, anyone can get a right answer. But, to get the right answer every time, one must have help. Is that help the holy spirit, and can we recognize the holy spirit when we see (or sense) it?

When Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden, God put Satan in charge of the world. So, the "God" that everyone prays to is Satan, not God. Could it be that everyone mistakes Satan for God? If so, could we get a correct interpretion of the bible from Satan?

It makes sense that God doesn't answer prayers....Satan is in charge, not God.

 

[Clara Tea]

Kind of my issue.
There was a time I thought I was being guided by the Holy Spirit. So the interpretation which seemed right to me, I must have been inspired to this knowledge by the Holy Spirit.
Being a honest person honestly seeking and asking God for guidance. If you ask, you will receive right.
Matt 7:
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye
shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh
findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If we believe this and do these things then we must be able to trust the understanding received.
Unfortunately I find the subconscious mind by itself is capable of inspiring these answers without any divine intervention.

It seems obviously to me why there exists so many different interpretations.
Believers constantly feed religious theology into their subconscious mind. The subconscious mind has plenty of information to autonomously create thoughts to feed into believers conscious awareness.

Why should they not, based on their teaching, accept these thoughts as divine revelation?

I used to do read Tarot cards. You read, study, learn. At first you look up the meanings in a book. Eventually, you feed enough information into your subconscious mind you no longer have to consciously think about the correct interpretation for the cards. Your subconscious mind gives you a running narrative about the person's life, their future etc... If you are not consciously aware of thinking the thought for your self, where else could the thought have originated except the spiritual/divine realm.

That is how psychics do it....they seem to ask with their minds, and the answer is sort of there....I don't know how.

 

[sayak83]

Can one interpret the Bible?

Some claim the Bible interprets itself, which I disagree with.
I interpret the Bible. Usually taking the plainest most mundane meaning. However I can't guarantee this mundane simple meaning to have been the intent of the original author.

Still I have heard from many, making many claims about the true meaning of scripture. I've given up trying to reconcile the numerous claims made by those claiming via some unknown authority, their interpretation.

Should non-believers simply pack up their bags and move to some other topic when it comes to understanding the Bible, or can anyone read the Bible using common language skills and understand it.

NRSV and Oxford Bible Commentary is sufficient for most purposes unless one has an ideological agenda...

 

[firedragon]

The Bible is tricky since there's a lot of mythology some which appears to be based on history and some borrowing from earlier myths such as the flood myth.

How do you know the flood was a myth?

 

[Psalm23]

Can one interpret the Bible?

Some claim the Bible interprets itself, which I disagree with.
I interpret the Bible. Usually taking the plainest most mundane meaning. However I can't guarantee this mundane simple meaning to have been the intent of the original author.

Still I have heard from many, making many claims about the true meaning of scripture. I've given up trying to reconcile the numerous claims made by those claiming via some unknown authority, their interpretation.

Should non-believers simply pack up their bags and move to some other topic when it comes to understanding the Bible, or can anyone read the Bible using common language skills and understand it.

In my opinion the Holy Spirit is necessary. He gives life and the ability to reason and understand. Both people who believe and don't believe can understand the Bible. I don't think anyone understands the Bible in everything it says.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It makes sense that God doesn't answer prayers....Satan is in charge, not God.

I see Satan is but our own choices.

Regards Tony

 

[sun rise]

How do you know the flood was a myth?

Why do you ask?

Gilgamesh flood myth - Wikipedia
The Ancient Babylonian Flood Myth That Inspired Noah's Ark Had A Dark Twist

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Can one interpret the Bible?

Some claim the Bible interprets itself, which I disagree with.
I interpret the Bible. Usually taking the plainest most mundane meaning. However I can't guarantee this mundane simple meaning to have been the intent of the original author.

Still I have heard from many, making many claims about the true meaning of scripture. I've given up trying to reconcile the numerous claims made by those claiming via some unknown authority, their interpretation.

Should non-believers simply pack up their bags and move to some other topic when it comes to understanding the Bible, or can anyone read the Bible using common language skills and understand it.

The thing about being "led by the holy spirit" is that there is no way to distinguish genuine guidance from the voice of your own intuition. Since the protestant reformation, the Christian church has split into 10s of thousands of denominations, all of whose doctrines were supposedly "led by the spirit." Well, if it were really the spirit leading, they would all agree. So why do they disagree? Because it is their own intellect and intuition that is doing the interpretation and discernment.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

By chance, anyone can get a right answer. But, to get the right answer every time, one must have help. Is that help the holy spirit, and can we recognize the holy spirit when we see (or sense) it?

When Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden, God put Satan in charge of the world. So, the "God" that everyone prays to is Satan, not God. Could it be that everyone mistakes Satan for God? If so, could we get a correct interpretion of the bible from Satan?

It makes sense that God doesn't answer prayers....Satan is in charge, not God.

Why do you think that Satan is in charge? Day in and day out, more acts of love and compassion are performed than acts of evil.

 

[MyM]

Can one interpret the Bible?

Some claim the Bible interprets itself, which I disagree with.
I interpret the Bible. Usually taking the plainest most mundane meaning. However I can't guarantee this mundane simple meaning to have been the intent of the original author.

Still I have heard from many, making many claims about the true meaning of scripture. I've given up trying to reconcile the numerous claims made by those claiming via some unknown authority, their interpretation.

Should non-believers simply pack up their bags and move to some other topic when it comes to understanding the Bible, or can anyone read the Bible using common language skills and understand it.

Good Mornin,

I am speaking from self experience. I was born and raised in a First Baptist family. I grew up goin to church, revivals, camps, I went through the entire ordeals of almost everythin they put out there. I went as far as Jamaica to spread the gospel and we were in choirs n such. I did everythin I was supposed to in the "Christian" arena. Got saved, asked Jesus to come into my heart, baptised, went out on visitation times, etc. etc. etc. I was well known in my church youth groups, activities, everything. I had a great deal of fun "preaching the gospel" and havin a great time defending my belief. I was so adamant-actually extremely adamant that Jesus died for my sins and that's the only way to God.

I was supposed to have that holy spirit in me. But I started to get confused. I started askin myself am I supposed to pray to God or Jesus? I started reading the Bible with an open mind instead of a persistent Baptist mind. I started finding mistakes and mistakes and mistakes. I started questioning my religion AND I HATED THAT. But it started to not make sense. I took out all of Jesus' passages. I put them all on a piece of paper. They hardly made up 1pg and a half from the entire Bible. I started thinkin, how can this be. I went to pastors and asked about the trinity since Jesus mostly stated to pray to the Father, not him. That the Lord God is one God. He could do nothing from himself. The pastors just kept on giving me their version that you must have faith and through Jesus Christ is the only way to get to heaven. I stopped going to preachers because they never could answer me fully and before you say they didn't explain it very well, I went to quite a few and they all said the same thing. So I started my journey into the unknown. I would never deny my Creator I knew that and I loved Jesus with all my heart so no one can thwart me there.

I started writing down the mistakes I found in the Bible. They started piling up. And anyone in the world has the power to do this, to me, the holy ghost was letting me down. I knew that God does not make mistakes in his word. I just knew it. I started with the authors of the books, I found out that Moses didn't even write the first 5 books and the story continues. I went from page one to the end. I was not a Bible scholar to interpret the works of the Bible, but I was human, I was saved, I was supposed to have the holy spirit in me. I even found plagiarism in the Bible. The Book of Isaiah 37 and then in 2 Kings 19. Exact same words. Why? No one could answer me this. They kept on telling me, it's the way God works...in Mysterious ways, etc. By the way, they use that a lot. So if The preachers and pastors can't explain to me forthright, then where is the Holy Spirit they claim that would guide me into all truth? It was abandoning me. I was not a joke. I loved my religion. I love Jesus. I love God. But it seemed to be all falling apart on me.

That is when I started asking questions outside my religion. By the way, that is like serious taboo. To venture outside and start having doubts and to go away from the religion your parents taught you on-especially First Baptist is a no no. But I did it because I wanted answers to my questions.

I asked about many religions and I went as far as to speak to rabis in the Jewish arena. I found out about a lot of religions but I kept it to the ones of the Creator, not man made ones. To me, those didn't seem realistic to keep God and Jesus out of the equation. I then met a Muslim. He explained quite a lot. I started my journey into Islam from that day forwards. I went to meetings, I went to gatherings. I started learning about this religion that only professed One God and loved all the prophets of God. They loved Jesus! I was shocked to be honest because many people just tell you they are in hell and believe differently. Well, yes, they did believe differently but they proved to me the reasons why. They had the answers I was looking for. It coincided with what Jesus was saying on my paper even! After that, it took me some time because I was afraid of what my parents, my pastor, my friends would all do if they found out. The pressure was unsurmountable. But I listened to my gut and I believe I truly found the truth.

So now the question stems outward....do you think that they can interpret the Bible without the holy ghost. My answer is YES.