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Without God there can be no Lasting Peace

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
And earlier you said:

Okay, so are you defining religion as being ANYTHING and EVERYTHING we believe that we cannot prove? I suppose that could be a definition of sorts, but it seems unusual...

Not quite. I define religion as being that which we believe (without proof), and that we bind ourselves to in spite of everything. That includes, obviously, doing what you know is wrong because your religion demands it.

Think about the Inca and Aztec, ripping the living hearts out of sacrifical humans. Could anyone really, in their own heart, think this is a "good thing?" Of course not -- they'd hate it if it happened to them, or someone they loved. But they could put up with it for others. Or perhaps think of the Abbot, during the Albigensian crusade, who when asked how to tell the Christians from the heretics answered, "Kill them all. The Lord will know his own."
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Not quite. I define religion as being that which we believe (without proof), and that we bind ourselves to in spite of everything. That includes, obviously, doing what you know is wrong because your religion demands it.

Think about the Inca and Aztec, ripping the living hearts out of sacrifical humans. Could anyone really, in their own heart, think this is a "good thing?" Of course not -- they'd hate it if it happened to them, or someone they loved. But they could put up with it for others. Or perhaps think of the Abbot, during the Albigensian crusade, who when asked how to tell the Christians from the heretics answered, "Kill them all. The Lord will know his own."

this is interesting. So can I assume that if we believe what others can prove, that doesn't count as religion? For example, I believe in human created climate change, but I can't - on my own - prove it. So from this perspective of yours, would my belief in climate change be a "religious" belief?
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
this is interesting. So can I assume that if we believe what others can prove, that doesn't count as religion? For example, I believe in human created climate change, but I can't - on my own - prove it. So from this perspective of yours, would my belief in climate change be a "religious" belief?
No! We get so messed up with this idea of "proof" that we forget that we can, sometimes, rely on authority. Can you "prove" that 1 + 1 = 2? Neither can I. But read Whitehead/Russell's Principia Mathematica, and they'll do it for you. (And then Kurt Goedel will prove that they didn't know everything, so nyahh!)

The evidence, however, says that human activity is responsible for climate change. You could try to prove it yourself (you'll have to purchase hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, and spend about 3 decades doing research, but you could get there), or you could take the work done by a whole lot of other people as at the very least persuasive -- if not absolute proof.

So no, believing what you can find persuasive evidence for believing, would not count as "religion." Unless you decide to bind yourself to it. Then it is.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
No! We get so messed up with this idea of "proof" that we forget that we can, sometimes, rely on authority. Can you "prove" that 1 + 1 = 2? Neither can I. But read Whitehead/Russell's Principia Mathematica, and they'll do it for you. (And then Kurt Goedel will prove that they didn't know everything, so nyahh!)

The evidence, however, says that human activity is responsible for climate change. You could try to prove it yourself (you'll have to purchase hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment, and spend about 3 decades doing research, but you could get there), or you could take the work done by a whole lot of other people as at the very least persuasive -- if not absolute proof.

So no, believing what you can find persuasive evidence for believing, would not count as "religion." Unless you decide to bind yourself to it. Then it is.

Again, this is a cool conversation, thanks!

So, can you provide an example of one of these beliefs that someone like me might not have thought of as "religious"?
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Have they found peace, Where?
Within themselves; where it counts.
Also.consider Is what you consider peace, actually peace?
Peace is freedom from that which you find disturbing.
Peace also requires the elimination of predudices and justice for all mankind, not just for a pocket of mankind.
I disagree; such a thing has never existed and never will. For me to have peace, I do not require the entire world to be at peace also.
Also, you said there is no peace without God. But going by your own definition of peace, where all of mankind must be tranquil in order to have peace, there is no peace WITH God either. (Assuming your idea of God exists) because the entire world has never been at peace.
 
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CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I do not read it in that light.

I see it is the consequences of our disobedience.

Regards Tony
How do you read it? In the stories God goes before his people into battle. God has Elijah kill all the prophets of a false God. I know Baha'is like to view some of these things as being symbolic. Is that what you're talking about? That those stories didn't literally happen?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Here is one.

This quote is taken from a longer passage in the “Book of the Forest” in the Mahabharata:

And when the end of the Yuga comes, crops will not grow in abundance. And the women will always be sharp in speech and pitiless and fond of weeping. And they will never abide by the commands of their husbands. And when the end of the Yuga comes, sons will slay fathers and mothers. And women, living uncontrolled, will slay their husbands and sons. … And when the end of the Yuga comes, men will cast away and neglect their friends and relatives and attendants. …

And when those terrible times will be over, the creation will begin anew. And men will again be created and distributed into the four orders beginning with Brahmanas. And about that time, in order that men may increase, Providence, according to its pleasure, will once more become propitious. And then when the Sun, the Moon, and Vrihaspati will, with the constellation Pushya, enter the same sign, the Krita age will begin again.

And the clouds will commence to shower seasonably, and the stars and stellar conjunctions will become auspicious. And the planets, duly revolving in their orbits, will become exceedingly propitious. And all around, there will be prosperity and abundance and health and peace. And commissioned by Time, a Brahmana of the name of Kalki will take his birth. And he will glorify Vishnu and possess great energy, great intelligence, and great prowess. And he will take his birth in a town of the name of Sambhala in an auspicious Brahmana family.

And vehicles and weapons, and warriors and arms, and coats of mail will be at his disposal as soon as he will think of them. And he will be the king of kings, and ever victorious with the strength of virtue. And he will restore order and peace in this world crowded with creatures and contradictory in its course. And that blazing Brahmana of mighty intellect, having appeared, will destroy all things. And he will be the Destroyer of all, and will inaugurate a new Yuga. And surrounded by the Brahmanas, that Brahmana will exterminate all the mlecchas wherever those low and despicable.The Mahabharata, Book 3: Vana Parva, Section CLXXXIX, translated by Kisari Mohan Ganguli, p. 390.

The King of Kings is Baha’u’llah.

Regards Tony
And did a manifestation of God write the Mahabharata? In the Gita does Krishna tell Arjuna that it is his duty to go fight and kill? Does Krishna talk about reincarnation? Does Krishna claim to be the incarnation of Vishnu? Do these prophecies specifically point to only one person, Baha'u'llah, as the one who fulfills them?

And do you have a quote from Baha’u’llah that specifically mentions Hinduism and Buddhism?
I have never seen a quote from Baha'u'llah that mentions Hinduism or Buddhism by name. Are there some?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How do you read it? In the stories God goes before his people into battle. God has Elijah kill all the prophets of a false God. I know Baha'is like to view some of these things as being symbolic. Is that what you're talking about? That those stories didn't literally happen?

The killing I see is the death of the old Message by the giving of the New. People are made alive and dead by that New Message.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Not quite. I define religion as being that which we believe (without proof), and that we bind ourselves to in spite of everything. That includes, obviously, doing what you know is wrong because your religion demands it.

Think about the Inca and Aztec, ripping the living hearts out of sacrifical humans. Could anyone really, in their own heart, think this is a "good thing?" Of course not -- they'd hate it if it happened to them, or someone they loved. But they could put up with it for others. Or perhaps think of the Abbot, during the Albigensian crusade, who when asked how to tell the Christians from the heretics answered, "Kill them all. The Lord will know his own."
Yes, it seems to me all people had their own ideas about religion and the Gods. Some Christians make it easy. They say, "Our God is the one true God. All the others are false." Baha'is, though, want to include all the major religions as being true and are forced to make their God the one and only God that was the one and only God in all of the major religions. So I asked this...

Then, of course, "God" is such a general term. Do you mean Yahweh, Vishnu, Zeus or who? To me, it seems like people had different concepts of who God is and what he does and will do. They're not necessarily speaking about the "one" God that Baha'is believe in.
To that Tony answered with...

It is the only One God by any name we see that God through, and how we have chosen to envisaged God.
I don't see how the Inca and Aztec Gods can be included in this. For me a much easier explanation would be that the ideas about the Gods were made up by people and eventually evolved into the belief in one supreme God.

And what's funny is that the Aztec Gods were believed to be false and were gotten rid of by the European conquerors and were replaced by the Christian trinitarian God that Baha'is believe is false.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't know. I don't see why those Bible stories have to be anything other than the Israelites telling stories about their battles and how their God helped them.

These metaphorical ideas are found in all the Holy books.

Here are some.

Ephesians 6:17 "Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God".

Isaiah 11:4 "But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked."

Revelation 2:16 "Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth".

That is the Battle of Good and Evil, God's Word against a wayward and neglectful generation, always an epic battle that continues from the beginning of the Message well after the death of that Message clouded by the clouds of erroe we raise.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
forced to make their God

There is no Baha'i God, there is only One God CG, the God of all creation.

There are an uncalcuable number of Messengers all with a different Name, all displaying specific attributes. As we now know, that we can only know God via the Messengers, it is now easier to see how we made God of some and not of others, and how we can make more Gods, other than the One and Only God.

Regards Tony
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
That is what I believe.

But is it more than a just a belief, is it the chance of fulfillment that all Faiths have been waiting for?

Is that not the quandary faced in every age, is that not a lesson that history has taught us, that God has been found in many Names and in many ways?

For me to be true to that belief, that there is no Peace without God, my role first and foremost, in my daily life, is to be an example of what that lasting peace entails.

Another major part of that example is to make mention of that possibility, only to those that desire to talk upon that subject. That is where an individual's responsibly with God ceases.

So this OP is focused on this passage, that I see has come from God, it was given to us in the mid to late 1800's.

"....The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded...."

It is offered in that same Tablet, that God has never left us to ourselves, that we have always had the chance to find that peace and security in the wisdom given by God.

It has also been offered that in previous ages, persons known as Noah, Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad (to name but a few) have all given us that chance at peace, given from God. They have all offered, each in turn, that it would be in the future when all humanity would be given the chance once again. Then the Bab came and offered that that day had come, that He was the Gate to that Day of God. Then Baha'u'llah offered that the Message He had, was that promised 'Day of God'.

"...The Pen of the Ancient King hath never ceased to remember the loved ones of God. At one time, rivers of mercy have streamed from His Pen, at another, through its movement, God’s perspicuous Book hath been revealed. He is the One to Whom none can compare, Whose utterance mortal man can never rival. He it is Who from everlasting hath been established upon the seat of ascendancy and might, He from Whose lips have gone out counsels that can satisfy the needs of the whole of mankind, and admonitions that can profit them...."

I see that is the Truth, that we cannot and will not find peace without embracing what God has said we need to do in this age.

What a quandary life offers.

Regards Tony



How is that possible. With the majority of humans being religious we have had pure war for 2 thousand years. Then we had the 2 worst wars ever while terrible smaller wars happened around those. Right now we have yet another inhumane war from a nation who embraced religion centuries ago. Right now. 2000 years.
6000 sects of just Christianity. If each sect could control the laws they would all fight in the name of God for their beliefs. Never mind other religions entirely?

Oh you have a new religion? One that probably almost none of the other religious folks are going to embrace? More war?

Now you cite a text that is supposedly from a God, yet it sounds like a person made it up? Did this God also say "in 10 years you will understand what E=Mc2 is"? Or "particles are waves, you will know this in 1926, the universe is 13 billion years old and 94 billion light years across, you will get this from science? Or the 10 trillionth digits in pi are - "1, 4, 8, 3, 2, 0, 1, 4, 6, 7, 3, 3, 7, 4,
No? Ok so it's just some dud who wrote it? Well that solves nothing.

If God was real he could create peace if he wanted. God is fiction, this is why that hasn't happened. This is why denominations split into endless fragments, they are based on things that are not real. When people eventually accept there are no deities and we are responsible for our well being then we may make some progress. NATO is the largest alliance and is not based on supernatural fiction.
Democratic societies who care about the citizens will be responsible for peace.
Do you even have a model for a peaceful world? Does it involve everyone converting to your religion?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
WITHOUT GOD, THERE CAN BE NO LASTING PEACE:

That is what I believe.

But is it more than a just a belief, is it the chance of fulfillment that all Faiths have been waiting for?

Is that not the quandary faced in every age, is that not a lesson that history has taught us, that God has been found in many Names and in many ways?

For me to be true to that belief, that there is no Peace without God, my role first and foremost, in my daily life, is to be an example of what that lasting peace entails.

Another major part of that example is to make mention of that possibility, only to those that desire to talk upon that subject. That is where an individual's responsibly with God ceases.

So this OP is focused on this passage, that I see has come from God, it was given to us in the mid to late 1800's.

"....The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded...."

It is offered in that same Tablet, that God has never left us to ourselves, that we have always had the chance to find that peace and security in the wisdom given by God.

It has also been offered that in previous ages, persons known as Noah, Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad (to name but a few) have all given us that chance at peace, given from God. They have all offered, each in turn, that it would be in the future when all humanity would be given the chance once again. Then the Bab came and offered that that day had come, that He was the Gate to that Day of God. Then Baha'u'llah offered that the Message He had, was that promised 'Day of God'.

"...The Pen of the Ancient King hath never ceased to remember the loved ones of God. At one time, rivers of mercy have streamed from His Pen, at another, through its movement, God’s perspicuous Book hath been revealed. He is the One to Whom none can compare, Whose utterance mortal man can never rival. He it is Who from everlasting hath been established upon the seat of ascendancy and might, He from Whose lips have gone out counsels that can satisfy the needs of the whole of mankind, and admonitions that can profit them...."

I see that is the Truth, that we cannot and will not find peace without embracing what God has said we need to do in this age.

What a quandary life offers.

Regards Tony

Peace requires discussion (diplomacy).

Clara Tea's opinions: I'll toss out the ideas, and they'll toss me out. The cancel culture doesn't allow ideas, nor the American First Amendment freedom of press--the American way. Trump, while still president, was banned by Facebook and Twitter.

It is delightful to converse with you because you have such peace in your heart. If we could clone you, peace would reign supreme in the world--a world full of yous.

Many believe that Christian forgiveness means that we have to forgive everyone (Hitler, who created torture camps, and W. Bush who created torture camps, and forgive both for their unprovoked wars against peaceful antions).

Looking at only positive attributes, Hitler fed starving citizens (who had been paying European nations for WW I reparations), and he built a strong military and made companies efficient. But praising Hitler, while ignoring his horrors, would offend Jews and many others.

In the 1960's, teens were drafted into the Vietnam war. The hippy movement had problems. They shunned jobs, had free sex with multiple partners, used narcotics. Yet, they also had a positive side. They had an abiding thirst for freedom.

Their songs reflected their sterling natures:

"You're old enough to fight, but not for votin'. You don't believe in war, but what's that gun you're totin'." (Barry McGuire).

"Silence like a cancer grows." (Simon and Garfunkle, Sounds of Silence). It was about war protesters beaten over the heads (like the ones ordered to be beaten by California governor (later US president) Ronald Reagan at UC Berkeley). The media (newspapers, radio, TV) banned hippy's explanations of their protests, and they were deemed rabble rousers with no agendas. Simon and Garfunkle made the point that the 1960's cancel culture couldn't stop all dissent, "words of the prophets are written on the subway walls" (can't stop grafitti--truth outs).

Drafting for never-ending wars for freedom and peace.....senseless. The Vietnam war was a battle of super-powers (US, China, and Russia) to prevent Communism spreading centuries of dictatorship and oppression. A mere decade before, Blacks were beaten in the streets of Mississippi, Georgia, and Alabama for asking for simple equality.

let me sing a simple song of freedom - Google Search

(Above) "Come and sing a simple song of freedom. Sing it like you've never sung before. Let it fill the air. Tell the people everywhere....We, the people here, don't want a war."" "Seven hundred million are enlisted. Most of what you read, most of what you read, is made of lies." (Bobby Darin, Simple Song of Freedom).

Antiwar songs were not new to the 1960's. An ancient Scot song "Shoon, shoon shularoon"....was rewritten in English as "Johnny Has Gone for a Soldier." It is about a woman who sold all of her possessions to make sure that her boyfriend had a sword to keep him safe when he went to war, but she had sold her spinning wheel (only means of making a living), and fishing reel (only means of eating), so was forced into prostitution, to her family's shame. Their point was that war affects not only soldiers, but those whom they leave behind (civilians). The horrors of war extend far further than most people realize.

Imagine a world that doesn't have wars, and doesn't spend billions of dollars on tanks, guns, soldiers, and destruction of houses and deaths of young people. We could spend our money, instead, on spending to elimenate pollution, housing and jobs for the poor, paying off national debt, interventions for narcotics addicts, etc.

So, it is mandatory that we follow God's law "thou shalt not kill" (no wars), to make this paradise that I speak of.

Notice that President W. Bush didn't wait to understand whether or not Afghanistan nor Iraq was guilty of terrorism, but hastily and without diplomacy, declared war, with no end game strategy.....(how do we pull out?????).

We need leaders with patience, who lack greed, who don't lie, who don't kill. In other words, we need to follow the bible and stay away from the deadly sins.

In short, I agree with your sentiment. Reality, on the other hand, doesn't work that way. Once terrorists attacked the US, the US felt obligated to protect its people and attack the bad guys, preferably on their soil, not ours.

Satan rules by lies, fear, and makes wars. Obviously if we shun the bible and adhere to the tools of the devil, we will end up with a living hell on earth, and end up with our souls burning in the fires of the bottomless pit of hell for all eternity.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Now you cite a text that is supposedly from a God, yet it sounds like a person made it up? Did this God also say "in 10 years you will understand what E=Mc2 is"? Or "particles are waves, you will know this in 1926, the universe is 13 billion years old and 94 billion light years across, you will get this from science? Or the 10 trillionth digits in pi are - "1, 4, 8, 3, 2, 0, 1, 4, 6, 7, 3, 3, 7, 4,
No? Ok so it's just some dud who wrote it? Well that solves nothing.

The capacity to understand that has always been there, and many people in history have seen that capacity, well before the time others embraced these concepts. It is only because that all knowledge was released in 1844 that, minds previously dull to such capacities now explored those possibilities.

".. Know then that the all-embracing framework that governs existence includes within its compass every existent being - particular or universal - whether outwardly or inwardly, secretly or openly. Just as particulars are infinite in number, so also universals, on the material plane, and the great realities of the universe are without number and beyond computation. The Dawning Places of Unity, the Daysprings of Singleness and the Suns of Holiness are also sanctified beyond the bounds of number, and the luminous spiritual worlds are exalted above limits and restrictions. In like manner the worlds of bodily existence the mind of no man can reckon nor the understanding of the learned comprehend. Consider the following well-known tradition and examine its meanings indicative of the vastness of the cosmos and its awesome limitless expanse: 'God, exalted be He, fashioned one hundred thousand, thousand lamps and suspended the Throne, the earth, the heavens and whatsoever is between them, even Heaven and Hell -- all of these in a single lamp. And only God knows what is in the rest of the lamps.' The fact that philosophers and sages have posited limits and restrictions for such matters is to be explained by the limitations of people~s minds and perceptions and the blindness of the followers of allusions, whose natures and intellects have been rendered dull and inanimate by the interposition of many veils"

Thus it was already known the expanse of this creation is beyond computation.

An ancient Persian poem offered this.

"Split the atom's heart, and lo! Within it thou wilt find a sun."

Baha'u'llah in His Writings also offered these thoughts

"... the light of divine knowledge and heavenly grace hath illumined and inspired the essence of all created things, in such wise that in each and every thing a door of knowledge hath been opened, and within every atom traces of the sun hath been made manifest..."

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 29

How resplendent the luminaries of knowledge that shine in an atom,

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 100

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Peace requires discussion (diplomacy).

Yes indeed, It can happen no other way but through consultation between the nations.

That is part of the guidance I see has already been given

Peace is indeed a wonderful topic, but peace will require that we act with justice, thus tyrants and oppressors, will need to be dealt with. How, I see that will need to be part of that required consultation.

Regards Tony
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
As we, one and all now have the capacity to embrace unity, in our diversity on a global scale.

Regards Tony
That doesn't make sense? You answered zero of my questions and made a non-sensical statement?

Over the last 2000 years you could say the same thing? But it's nonsense then and now. Do you expect everyone to convert to your religion? Diversity of religion equals conflict. Especially if a religion gets to make laws based on their religious beliefs.

We do not actually have the capacity to embrace unity because people for one are tied up in very different religious beliefs. As well as political beliefs and territorial. Are you prepared to switch to the religion with the most members? If we are going to go with unity right away then that would probably be the only way. Soon that will be Islam, so are you ready to become Islamic?

Sounds like you are just pretending like conflict doesn't happen?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sounds like you are just pretending like conflict doesn't happen?

Conflict is a choice, a choice we can change overnight. The longer we choose to ignore the choices God has offered, the greater will be the frequency and events that will change our minds.

Regards Tony
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
The capacity to understand that has always been there, and many people in history have seen that capacity, well before the time others embraced these concepts. It is only because that all knowledge was released in 1844 that, minds previously dull to such capacities now explored those possibilities.

".. Know then that the all-embracing framework that governs existence includes within its compass every existent being - particular or universal - whether outwardly or inwardly, secretly or openly. Just as particulars are infinite in number, so also universals, on the material plane, and the great realities of the universe are without number and beyond computation. The Dawning Places of Unity, the Daysprings of Singleness and the Suns of Holiness are also sanctified beyond the bounds of number, and the luminous spiritual worlds are exalted above limits and restrictions. In like manner the worlds of bodily existence the mind of no man can reckon nor the understanding of the learned comprehend. Consider the following well-known tradition and examine its meanings indicative of the vastness of the cosmos and its awesome limitless expanse: 'God, exalted be He, fashioned one hundred thousand, thousand lamps and suspended the Throne, the earth, the heavens and whatsoever is between them, even Heaven and Hell -- all of these in a single lamp. And only God knows what is in the rest of the lamps.' The fact that philosophers and sages have posited limits and restrictions for such matters is to be explained by the limitations of people~s minds and perceptions and the blindness of the followers of allusions, whose natures and intellects have been rendered dull and inanimate by the interposition of many veils"

Thus it was already known the expanse of this creation is beyond computation.


Is that supposed to be impressive? You think a God messenger writes bad sci-fi? Wow. At least read some Jane Roberts/Seth if you like fiction about multiple realities.



An ancient Persian poem offered this.

"Split the atom's heart, and lo! Within it thou wilt find a sun."

Baha'u'llah in His Writings also offered these thoughts

"... the light of divine knowledge and heavenly grace hath illumined and inspired the essence of all created things, in such wise that in each and every thing a door of knowledge hath been opened, and within every atom traces of the sun hath been made manifest..."

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 29

How resplendent the luminaries of knowledge that shine in an atom,

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 100

Regards Tony

Your bottom 2 quotes are labled wrong. It is not 29 and 100. Much of the language is poetic. This is not science at all.

" Thus, by the “sun” in one sense is meant those Suns of Truth Who rise from the dayspring of ancient glory, and fill the world with a liberal effusion of grace from on high. These Suns of Truth are the universal Manifestations of God in the worlds of His attributes and names. Evenv"

The top might be Rumi. It's poetic, finding large things in small things. Baha'ullah is also using poetic language. That isn't scientific information. You do know that hydrogen, helium and deuterium atoms existed before stars?
But the opening to the passage explains what he means.
"the light of divine knowledge and heavenly grace hath illumined and inspired the essence of all created things, in such wise that in each and every thing a door of knowledge hath been opened"
that is the statement,

"and within every atom traces of the sun hath been made manifest..."

that is the example of his statement, to make the example he takes something small and shows how it can contain aspects or information (divine knowledge) in something big. He could have said in every ant lies traces of a whale.
What he did not say is that atoms contain a vast amount of energy such that E=Mc2 and c is light speed.


The Kitab-i-Iqan explains the word "sun" if poetic for many different things. This stuff isn't even good philosophy? Why do people think it's divine text? It just rambles?
 
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