Without God there can be no Lasting Peace

[TransmutingSoul]

Get in line.
Such "messages" have been repeated ad nauseaum through the millenia as well.
Again, the historical track record makes me not hold my breath.

No need to hold your breath, it is all unfolding around us each day.

Regards Tony

 

[Sheldon]

I lived a life that was foreknown by God, and God allowed the severe abuse I suffered to happen. That's not love.

"And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered." Matthew 10:30

"The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps." Proverbs 16:9

"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb." Psalm 139:13

"The Lord has made everything for its own purpose, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4

"Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him." Ephesians 1:4

"He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you." I Peter 1:20



To each his (or her) own.

I was a Christian for thirty years, and I suffered from chronic depression, anxiety attacks and suicidal thoughts during those years. I was also diagnosed with PTSD because of the incredible trauma of abuse that I suffered while growing up. I'm much better off now without having God in my life, and I'm finally feeling peace in my life. My emotions are healing, and I'm able to cope with any bumps in the road of life so much better now. I don't regret disavowing my faith, but I wish I had done this years ago because I could have spared myself many years of pain and anguish. It took me several years to free myself from the shackles of my faith, and there's no doubt in my mind that forsaking my faith in God was the best decision that I've ever made for myself and my mental health.

That's terrible, I'm really sorry to hear that, but glad you were able to take control of your life. Thanks for sharing that, it can't have been easy.

 

[Sheldon]

The path is indeed in all of us and does indeed need total submission of our ego.

I don't believe either claim sorry, making claims to knowledge of a deity, and absolute truths that claim to understand the purpose of everything, and that humans alone among hundreds of millions of species are why a deity created everything, has never struck me as humble, quite the opposite.

There is no evidence that theism leads to a more peaceful existence, quite the opposite in fact, and secularism and humanism can at least accept we are all equal, regardless of what we choose to believe or disbelieve.

 

[Colt]

That is what I believe.

But is it more than a just a belief, is it the chance of fulfillment that all Faiths have been waiting for?

Is that not the quandary faced in every age, is that not a lesson that history has taught us, that God has been found in many Names and in many ways?

For me to be true to that belief, that there is no Peace without God, my role first and foremost, in my daily life, is to be an example of what that lasting peace entails.

Another major part of that example is to make mention of that possibility, only to those that desire to talk upon that subject. That is where an individual's responsibly with God ceases.

So this OP is focused on this passage, that I see has come from God, it was given to us in the mid to late 1800's.

"....The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded...."

It is offered in that same Tablet, that God has never left us to ourselves, that we have always had the chance to find that peace and security in the wisdom given by God.

It has also been offered that in previous ages, persons known as Noah, Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad (to name but a few) have all given us that chance at peace, given from God. They have all offered, each in turn, that it would be in the future when all humanity would be given the chance once again. Then the Bab came and offered that that day had come, that He was the Gate to that Day of God. Then Baha'u'llah offered that the Message He had, was that promised 'Day of God'.

"...The Pen of the Ancient King hath never ceased to remember the loved ones of God. At one time, rivers of mercy have streamed from His Pen, at another, through its movement, God’s perspicuous Book hath been revealed. He is the One to Whom none can compare, Whose utterance mortal man can never rival. He it is Who from everlasting hath been established upon the seat of ascendancy and might, He from Whose lips have gone out counsels that can satisfy the needs of the whole of mankind, and admonitions that can profit them...."

I see that is the Truth, that we cannot and will not find peace without embracing what God has said we need to do in this age.

What a quandary life offers.

Regards Tony

You speak the truth! God is the only power that can unify all mankind. Only then will we have peace on earth and goodwill among all men.

In the Urantia Book revelation Jesus traveled extensively prior to the public faze of his teaching. While in Persia he gave a series of talks at an interfaith colony at lake Urmia. Restated in modern phraseology Jesus addresses this issue:


Sovereignty—Divine and Human

134:4.1 (1486.4) The brotherhood of men is founded on the fatherhood of God. The family of God is derived from the love of God—God is love. God the Father divinely loves his children, all of them.

134:4.2 (1486.5) The kingdom of heaven, the divine government, is founded on the fact of divine sovereignty—God is spirit. Since God is spirit, this kingdom is spiritual. The kingdom of heaven is neither material nor merely intellectual; it is a spiritual relationship between God and man.

134:4.3 (1486.6) If different religions recognize the spirit sovereignty of God the Father, then will all such religions remain at peace. Only when one religion assumes that it is in some way superior to all others, and that it possesses exclusive authority over other religions, will such a religion presume to be intolerant of other religions or dare to persecute other religious believers.

134:4.4 (1487.1) Religious peace—brotherhood—can never exist unless all religions are willing to completely divest themselves of all ecclesiastical authority and fully surrender all concept of spiritual sovereignty. God alone is spirit sovereign.

134:4.5 (1487.2) You cannot have equality among religions (religious liberty) without having religious wars unless all religions consent to the transfer of all religious sovereignty to some superhuman level, to God himself.

134:4.6 (1487.3) The kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men will create religious unity (not necessarily uniformity) because any and all religious groups composed of such religious believers will be free from all notions of ecclesiastical authority—religious sovereignty.

134:4.7 (1487.4) God is spirit, and God gives a fragment of his spirit self to dwell in the heart of man. Spiritually, all men are equal. The kingdom of heaven is free from castes, classes, social levels, and economic groups. You are all brethren.

134:4.8 (1487.5) But the moment you lose sight of the spirit sovereignty of God the Father, some one religion will begin to assert its superiority over other religions; and then, instead of peace on earth and good will among men, there will start dissensions, recriminations, even religious wars, at least wars among religionists.

134:4.9 (1487.6) Freewill beings who regard themselves as equals, unless they mutually acknowledge themselves as subject to some supersovereignty, some authority over and above themselves, sooner or later are tempted to try out their ability to gain power and authority over other persons and groups. The concept of equality never brings peace except in the mutual recognition of some overcontrolling influence of supersovereignty.

134:4.10 (1487.7) The Urmia religionists lived together in comparative peace and tranquillity because they had fully surrendered all their notions of religious sovereignty. Spiritually, they all believed in a sovereign God; socially, full and unchallengeable authority rested in their presiding head—Cymboyton. They well knew what would happen to any teacher who assumed to lord it over his fellow teachers. There can be no lasting religious peace on Urantia until all religious groups freely surrender all their notions of divine favor, chosen people, and religious sovereignty. Only when God the Father becomes supreme will men become religious brothers and live together in religious peace on earth." UB 1955

 

[blü 2]

He it is Who from everlasting hath been established upon the seat of ascendancy and might, He from Whose lips have gone out counsels that can satisfy the needs of the whole of mankind, and admonitions that can profit them...."

I don't know what particular counsels those are, but if they're for peace between the tribes of humans, for justice and for equality before the law, if they're for the level playing field and equal opportunity, then they haven't been a remarkable success.

Good advice that doesn't work might be aspirational but something practical that does work would be closer to the point, no?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No need to hold your breath, it is all unfolding around us each day.

Regards Tony

Yeah, especially in Ukraine.

Ow, wait.............

 

[Sheldon]

You speak the truth! God is the only power that can unify all mankind. Only then will we have peace on earth and goodwill among all men.

In the Urantia Book revelation Jesus traveled extensively prior to the public faze of his teaching. While in Persia he gave a series of talks at an interfaith colony at lake Urmia. Restated in modern phraseology Jesus addresses this issue:


Sovereignty—Divine and Human

134:4.1 (1486.4) The brotherhood of men is founded on the fatherhood of God. The family of God is derived from the love of God—God is love. God the Father divinely loves his children, all of them.

134:4.2 (1486.5) The kingdom of heaven, the divine government, is founded on the fact of divine sovereignty—God is spirit. Since God is spirit, this kingdom is spiritual. The kingdom of heaven is neither material nor merely intellectual; it is a spiritual relationship between God and man.

134:4.3 (1486.6) If different religions recognize the spirit sovereignty of God the Father, then will all such religions remain at peace. Only when one religion assumes that it is in some way superior to all others, and that it possesses exclusive authority over other religions, will such a religion presume to be intolerant of other religions or dare to persecute other religious believers.

134:4.4 (1487.1) Religious peace—brotherhood—can never exist unless all religions are willing to completely divest themselves of all ecclesiastical authority and fully surrender all concept of spiritual sovereignty. God alone is spirit sovereign.

134:4.5 (1487.2) You cannot have equality among religions (religious liberty) without having religious wars unless all religions consent to the transfer of all religious sovereignty to some superhuman level, to God himself.

134:4.6 (1487.3) The kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men will create religious unity (not necessarily uniformity) because any and all religious groups composed of such religious believers will be free from all notions of ecclesiastical authority—religious sovereignty.

134:4.7 (1487.4) God is spirit, and God gives a fragment of his spirit self to dwell in the heart of man. Spiritually, all men are equal. The kingdom of heaven is free from castes, classes, social levels, and economic groups. You are all brethren.

134:4.8 (1487.5) But the moment you lose sight of the spirit sovereignty of God the Father, some one religion will begin to assert its superiority over other religions; and then, instead of peace on earth and good will among men, there will start dissensions, recriminations, even religious wars, at least wars among religionists.

134:4.9 (1487.6) Freewill beings who regard themselves as equals, unless they mutually acknowledge themselves as subject to some supersovereignty, some authority over and above themselves, sooner or later are tempted to try out their ability to gain power and authority over other persons and groups. The concept of equality never brings peace except in the mutual recognition of some overcontrolling influence of supersovereignty.

134:4.10 (1487.7) The Urmia religionists lived together in comparative peace and tranquillity because they had fully surrendered all their notions of religious sovereignty. Spiritually, they all believed in a sovereign God; socially, full and unchallengeable authority rested in their presiding head—Cymboyton. They well knew what would happen to any teacher who assumed to lord it over his fellow teachers. There can be no lasting religious peace on Urantia until all religious groups freely surrender all their notions of divine favor, chosen people, and religious sovereignty. Only when God the Father becomes supreme will men become religious brothers and live together in religious peace on earth." UB 1955

I've seen no evidence that theistic believe brings peace, often quite the opposite, and there are literally thousands of deities that people have imagined are real, so the idea that everyone will suddenly agree and things will turn out great, seems a pretty dubious idea at best.

A good starting point would be the international will to set a standard for human rights, and to enforce it globally, we don't need religions for that, eradicating poverty, ensuring every child has a proper education, these are specific and laudable goals. Woolly sentiments that everything will sort itself when everyone shares your belief, just sounds like "listen to me everybody I know best."

 

[Sheldon]

Good advice that doesn't work might be aspirational but something practical that does work would be closer to the point, no?

Couldn't agree more, kudos.

 

[Sheldon]

Yeah, especially in Ukraine.

Ow, wait.............

The real irony is that Russia under Putin, has been increasingly returning to ultra orthodox Christianity.

 

[Kfox]

That is what I believe.

But is it more than a just a belief, is it the chance of fulfillment that all Faiths have been waiting for?

Is that not the quandary faced in every age, is that not a lesson that history has taught us, that God has been found in many Names and in many ways?

For me to be true to that belief, that there is no Peace without God, my role first and foremost, in my daily life, is to be an example of what that lasting peace entails.

Another major part of that example is to make mention of that possibility, only to those that desire to talk upon that subject. That is where an individual's responsibly with God ceases.

So this OP is focused on this passage, that I see has come from God, it was given to us in the mid to late 1800's.

"....The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded...."

It is offered in that same Tablet, that God has never left us to ourselves, that we have always had the chance to find that peace and security in the wisdom given by God.

It has also been offered that in previous ages, persons known as Noah, Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad (to name but a few) have all given us that chance at peace, given from God. They have all offered, each in turn, that it would be in the future when all humanity would be given the chance once again. Then the Bab came and offered that that day had come, that He was the Gate to that Day of God. Then Baha'u'llah offered that the Message He had, was that promised 'Day of God'.

"...The Pen of the Ancient King hath never ceased to remember the loved ones of God. At one time, rivers of mercy have streamed from His Pen, at another, through its movement, God’s perspicuous Book hath been revealed. He is the One to Whom none can compare, Whose utterance mortal man can never rival. He it is Who from everlasting hath been established upon the seat of ascendancy and might, He from Whose lips have gone out counsels that can satisfy the needs of the whole of mankind, and admonitions that can profit them...."

I see that is the Truth, that we cannot and will not find peace without embracing what God has said we need to do in this age.

What a quandary life offers.

Regards Tony

What about all the people who dismiss your God (those who worship what you might call a fake God, or those who worship no God at all) yet still find peace?

 

[Colt]

I've seen no evidence that theistic believe brings peace, often quite the opposite, and there are literally thousands of deities that people have imagined are real, so the idea that everyone will suddenly agree and things will turn out great, seems a pretty dubious idea at best.

A good starting point would be the international will to set a standard for human rights, and to enforce it globally, we don't need religions for that, eradicating poverty, ensuring every child has a proper education, these are specific and laudable goals. Woolly sentiments that everything will sort itself when everyone shares your belief, just sounds like "listen to me everybody I know best."

By the same token you sound like "listen to me everybody I know best." Weve seen what the evil of Atheism can do in societies that attempt to eliminate religion all together.

 

[Colt]

The real irony is that Russia under Putin, has been increasingly returning to ultra orthodox Christianity.

Well, Russia tried ultraorthodox Atheism and that killed millions of people. Even though ultra orthodox Christianity is a departure from the religion of Jesus of Nazareth, its a least a step away from the evil of Atheism.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It often seems that with God there can't be any lasting peace, either.

God's 'Golden Rule' of Leviticus 19:18 I find is written down for all to see.
If everyone on Earth applied and lived by the Golden Rule there would be lasting peace.
MAN had dominated MAN to MAN's hurt, MAN's injury.
So, this means that God has to step in to bring lasting peace on Earth meaning: God will stop wars - Psalms 46:9
God is going to have Jesus step in to rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.......Good advice that doesn't work might be aspirational but something practical that does work would be closer to the point, no?

I think the good advice that Jesus gave regarding the Golden Rule is really good global advice.
Because we all can make or decide our free-moral choices is why the Golden Rule can't be enforced.
I find the ' something practical that does work ' is when a person is exposed to love as Jesus loved.
( applying the same self-sacrificing love as Jesus taught and did )
Once a person is exposed and chooses to follow Jesus' example is: the practical that does work.
What was also practical to Jesus is that we should warn others as Jesus said at Matthew 24:13-14.
We are to tell others about the good news of God's Kingdom ( thy kingdom come..... - Daniel 2:44 )
The warning that ignoring Christ-like love could lead to one's destruction - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
So, just because people ignore Jesus' teachings does Not mean what Jesus taught is not practical.
And it will work because people are being forewarned before there will be divine involvement into man's affairs.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't believe either claim sorry, making claims to knowledge of a deity, and absolute truths that claim to understand the purpose of everything, and that humans alone among hundreds of millions of species are why a deity created everything, has never struck me as humble, quite the opposite.

There is no evidence that theism leads to a more peaceful existence, quite the opposite in fact, and secularism and humanism can at least accept we are all equal, regardless of what we choose to believe or disbelieve.

In our relative state of being, for us to recognise God as the source of our being and that God has all power over us, is our bounty in humility, God does not need our submission, it is given as a bounty.

God as the source of all power, I agree many would not see that as being humble. Yet consider that no Messenger uses that power to force anybody to believe, they also allow men to do with them as men so choose, they are actually the apex of humility.

This was the lesson in Humility that Jesus taught and that Lesson was given by God.

How can a person find that level of submission, other than Faith?

That is also another valid proof of God. People are not submitting out of ignorance, they are submitting because it has been demonstrated that the Message is the guidance that is needed in this age for all humanity and has indeed come from a source that has an innate knowledge of the past and the future of humanity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You speak the truth! God is the only power that can unify all mankind. Only then will we have peace on earth and goodwill among all men.

In the Urantia Book revelation Jesus traveled extensively prior to the public faze of his teaching. While in Persia he gave a series of talks at an interfaith colony at lake Urmia. Restated in modern phraseology Jesus addresses this issue:


Sovereignty—Divine and Human

134:4.1 (1486.4) The brotherhood of men is founded on the fatherhood of God. The family of God is derived from the love of God—God is love. God the Father divinely loves his children, all of them.

134:4.2 (1486.5) The kingdom of heaven, the divine government, is founded on the fact of divine sovereignty—God is spirit. Since God is spirit, this kingdom is spiritual. The kingdom of heaven is neither material nor merely intellectual; it is a spiritual relationship between God and man.

134:4.3 (1486.6) If different religions recognize the spirit sovereignty of God the Father, then will all such religions remain at peace. Only when one religion assumes that it is in some way superior to all others, and that it possesses exclusive authority over other religions, will such a religion presume to be intolerant of other religions or dare to persecute other religious believers.

134:4.4 (1487.1) Religious peace—brotherhood—can never exist unless all religions are willing to completely divest themselves of all ecclesiastical authority and fully surrender all concept of spiritual sovereignty. God alone is spirit sovereign.

134:4.5 (1487.2) You cannot have equality among religions (religious liberty) without having religious wars unless all religions consent to the transfer of all religious sovereignty to some superhuman level, to God himself.

134:4.6 (1487.3) The kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men will create religious unity (not necessarily uniformity) because any and all religious groups composed of such religious believers will be free from all notions of ecclesiastical authority—religious sovereignty.

134:4.7 (1487.4) God is spirit, and God gives a fragment of his spirit self to dwell in the heart of man. Spiritually, all men are equal. The kingdom of heaven is free from castes, classes, social levels, and economic groups. You are all brethren.

134:4.8 (1487.5) But the moment you lose sight of the spirit sovereignty of God the Father, some one religion will begin to assert its superiority over other religions; and then, instead of peace on earth and good will among men, there will start dissensions, recriminations, even religious wars, at least wars among religionists.

134:4.9 (1487.6) Freewill beings who regard themselves as equals, unless they mutually acknowledge themselves as subject to some supersovereignty, some authority over and above themselves, sooner or later are tempted to try out their ability to gain power and authority over other persons and groups. The concept of equality never brings peace except in the mutual recognition of some overcontrolling influence of supersovereignty.

134:4.10 (1487.7) The Urmia religionists lived together in comparative peace and tranquillity because they had fully surrendered all their notions of religious sovereignty. Spiritually, they all believed in a sovereign God; socially, full and unchallengeable authority rested in their presiding head—Cymboyton. They well knew what would happen to any teacher who assumed to lord it over his fellow teachers. There can be no lasting religious peace on Urantia until all religious groups freely surrender all their notions of divine favor, chosen people, and religious sovereignty. Only when God the Father becomes supreme will men become religious brothers and live together in religious peace on earth." UB 1955

Thank you for that, I had not heard of the Urantia Book revelation. It has some great wisdom printed.

I was interested to see that it came out of Chicago, Chicago is a special place for Baha'is and Abdul'baha visited there in 1912 and gave many talks on Peace.

Interesting fact is it was Chicago that America first heard of the Baha'i Faith.

It was where the World’s Columbian Exposition, opened its doors on May 1, 1893.

Alongside that Exposition there were almost 300 conferences on topics such as commerce, medicine, philosophy, and history.

One of them was the World’s Parliament of Religions and was held offsite at the Art Institute of Chicago. Though many had felt it would be a risky proposition, that people could be lured into thinking that Hinduism or Islam might have a modicum of truth. Neatherless the Parliament forged ahead under a motto taken from the Old Testament: “Have we not all one father? Hath not one God created us?”

Then on September 23, Reverend Henry Jessup, a Presbyterian missionary living in Syria, delivered a paper at the Parliament about his experiences in the Middle East. In it, he quoted ‘Abdu’l-Bahá’s father — the prophet Bahá’u’lláh. Reverend Jessup said that the words “gave utterance to sentiments so noble, so Christ like” that he would repeat them to conclude his address:

“That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bond of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religions should cease and differences of race be annulled. What harm is there in this? Yet so it shall be. These fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the Most Great Peace shall come . . . . Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind.”

Reverend Henry Jessup had introduced Americans to Bahá’u’lláh, and it happened in Chicago.

Adapted summary from this link
‘Abdu’l-Bahá Likes Chicago More

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't know what particular counsels those are, but if they're for peace between the tribes of humans, for justice and for equality before the law, if they're for the level playing field and equal opportunity, then they haven't been a remarkable success.

Good advice that doesn't work might be aspirational but something practical that does work would be closer to the point, no?

Thank you Blu 2. Personally I see they are yet to be embraced by a majority, thus the potential is yet to be seen.

They are successful when practiced, but that will require more of humanity to submit to a wisdom greater than their own self.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah, especially in Ukraine.

Ow, wait.............

When one reads what Baha'u'llah has offered, one can see that Ukraine is just another chance to embrace the Councils of the Pen of the Most High. All the events unfolding have been forewarned, with the solution provided.

So the solution to the Ukraine situation had already been given.

So why you may see a failure in what God has offered, many see it as a failure of humanity to implement what God has already offered.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What about all the people who dismiss your God (those who worship what you might call a fake God, or those who worship no God at all) yet still find peace?

Have they found peace, Where?

Also.consider Is what you consider peace, actually peace?

Peace also requires the elimination of predudices and justice for all mankind, not just for a pocket of mankind.

Regards Tony

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I see we can change and make great change in our lives.

I know many have, thus it is most likely just a desire for change that is needed.

It is not a coincidence that the world is heading towards events that will change our desire for war into a desire for peace.

I see God has already shown us how this will happen, it has been given in great detail, the issue is, many are yet to read what was offered.

Regards Tony

I agree change is happening for the better. Hopefully the people who oppose goodness will get a life. I just don’t see it as traceable to people long dead.