Wisdom from Rumi

[Unveiled Artist]

Do you mean the human aspect of our being? Not sure i understood your question correctly

No. How does defining life-force diminish what its nature or characteristics?

Em. How does naming and/or defining god diminish its essence or nature?

 

[sun rise]

This is a wonderful poem from the master poet (and much more) Rumi.

This poem, like poems and writings from many sources urges people to journey within. Some, a few, hear that call.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

More importantly, do you embody it? So far tame specimens here.

Shrugs. Not sure what you're trying to say. Seems like you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Isolde Schulz]

Shrugs. Not sure what you're trying to say. Seems like you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Now I can't help but pity you.

 

[Windwalker]

I take offense at you dictating what anyone's task is. Even if it were to seek love, so be it. Speaking of barriers, fathom how many you have.

I pretty sure Rumi was saying this to those who were seeking God. So you were not his intended audience. For you, I'm sure he'd have just smiled and nodded and said carry on, and then turned back to those who were not as convinced they had arrived.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No. How does defining life-force diminish what's nature or characteristics?

Em. How does naming and/or defining god diminish its essence or nature?

I do not think we need to name God, but it is a human way of giving name to something we believe in. No matter what we call God, God will be there

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do not think we need to name God, but it is a human way of giving name to something we believe in. No matter what we call God, God will be there

In some religions god doesn't have a name. So, to label it god even for the sake of conversation would be wrong or incomplete. Which would then make the term life-force or god useless labels if it can't be described and defined.

Since god doesn't have a definition, it is (how to say) just as meaningless to talk about it.

1. How does a person talk about god when its only a label for something he or she cannot define?

2. How does one know he or she experiences god, when that person cannot define what he or she has experienced?

3. What's the value of an empty label?

To add: Kind of like using pronouns to talk about someone or something, but when asked what are the nouns to which those pronouns refer to, no one knows.

 

[rational experiences]

His teaching is bringing attention that a human already is love. That the ego self denies by its self destructive life reasoning the forces of which no one controls. To accept who we are to live a happier life by that realisation.

What was built already existed as all presence formed.

When you know love you realise what you never were.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In some religions god doesn't have a name. So, to label it god even for the sake of conversation would be wrong or incomplete. Which would then make the term life-force or god useless labels if it can't be described and defined.

Since god doesn't have a definition, it is (how to say) just as meaningless to talk about it.

1. How does a person talk about god when its only a label for something he or she cannot define?

2. How does one know he or she experiences god, when that person cannot define what he or she has experienced?

3. What's the value of an empty label?

In any religious/spiritual teaching that speak of a lifeforce or God, there will be level of wisdom to what this lifeforce truly are, but this create difficulties too, because some people can not handle that people from same religion have different answers to what lifeforce is.

Example in Islam there is at least 99 names for God. But mostly all people use the word Allah to describe the lifeforce. You can call lifeforce love, compassion, truth, and all of them would be correct.
In my understanding the answer to what lifeforce truly are, will arise from within each person the more the person look within hin/her self.

So the lifeforce that arise from within me, may not look the same or sound the same for other people.
I do not think it is meaningless to speak about God, but it might be difficult or impossible to say "this is God" and then give an answer. it is better to say "in my understanding God/lifeforce seems to be"

 

[Windwalker]

In some religions god doesn't have a name. So, to label it god even for the sake of conversation would be wrong or incomplete. Which would then make the term life-force or god useless labels if it can't be described and defined.

No. I don't agree with this. As the Zen master said after Enlightenment, "You have to say something". Yes, while it cannot be defined or named or talked about, you have to say something if you are attempting to describe, point to, or otherwise communicate something about it to another. The mind requires that, it thinks in words, even if it is not the mind with which you apprehend that which cannot be named. The mind is meant to look beyond thinking about it, though the words themselves.

The problem is that people take a metaphor and interpret that with the mind as a descriptor of what it is, putting a boundary around it, like naming something a dog or a cat, or a tree or a rock. If the mind mistakes the finger pointing at the moon with the moon itself, then the mind is mistaken. But it is not wrong for someone to point. "You have to say something". The mind looks at the words, and then uses them to leap off into realization beyond the words. Think of them like a diving board.

Since god doesn't have a definition, it is (how to say) just as meaningless to talk about it.

That is why we use metaphors and mythologies. They are the equivalent of the dance. But to ask to explain the dance, misses the point of the dance. To ask someone to define God, misses the point of using the word God.

1. How does a person talk about god when its only a label for something he or she cannot define?

How does a person dance or sing, about something they cannot define with words? Is life only about the mind and its thoughts, or about the whole person? Isn't this what true art is all about? To express the inexpressible?

2. How does one know he or she experiences god, when that person cannot define what he or she has experienced?

When it is beyond description, that's the first clue.

3. What's the value of an empty label?

What is the value of poetry? Do you ask a poet for a critical analysis of his poem, in order for it to be heard by your soul? I would think that would indicate someone is stuck in thinking about life, as opposed to living it with their whole being. Something is missing. The whole person isn't present.