Wine, not

[rosends]

I'm sure this has been dealt with somewhere but I was just wondering --

the rule against non-mevushal wine that was touched by a non-Jew is predicated on the idea that an idolater would not use cooked wine to serve his deity because of its inferior quality.

Now that mevushal wines are getting better and better (and, IIRC, some are winning awards against even non-mevushal wines) is there any thought to changing the rules of yayin nesech?

 

[Harel13]

On the other hand, how common is it to use wine for idolatrous nesech today?

 

[rosends]

On the other hand, how common is it to use wine for idolatrous nesech today?

true, and what I have heard (somewhere...) is that many of the non-Jews of today aren't the same of the ovdei avoda zarah of the gemara. Lo plug I guess

 

[rosends]

Assuming that Church service that includes transubstantiation belief uses a mevushal wine (only one available?) would that mean that mevushal wines in the future (or at least that specific brand) would be subject to concerns over yayin nesech?

 

[Harel13]

Assuming that Church service that includes transubstantiation belief uses a mevushal wine (only one available?) would that mean that mevushal wines in the future (or at least that specific brand) would be subject to concerns over yayin nesech?

Good question. Yein nesech has long not only been about wine used for idolatry. It has expanded to all non-Jews.

 

[rosends]

an associated question -- while I know wine has a particular status, one has to wonder if being used for A"Z would impact other products...

Why some Christians use matzo for Communion — yes, really

At the Last Supper, Jesus shared unleavened bread with his disciples; as a result, today's Christians eat it for communion

forward.com

 

[Harel13]

an associated question -- while I know wine has a particular status, one has to wonder if being used for A"Z would impact other products...

Why some Christians use matzo for Communion — yes, really

At the Last Supper, Jesus shared unleavened bread with his disciples; as a result, today's Christians eat it for communion

forward.com

Well, then you'd be canceling a de'oraita. And that's even if a particular court today had the power to rule such a gezerah.

 

[rosends]

Well, then you'd be canceling a de'oraita. And that's even if a particular court today had the power to rule such a gezerah.

Might there have to be some ruling about who can handle the matzah? Treat the open box like a bottle of non-mevushal wine. Just a thought.

 

[Harel13]

Might there have to be some ruling about who can handle the matzah? Treat the open box like a bottle of non-mevushal wine. Just a thought.

I suppose there's some inherent difference between the way wine is made and the way matzah is made, to not entail a comparison.

 

[rosends]

well, I'm hopeful that all my matzah is mevushal in the first place

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm a little embarrassed to ask, but, out of curiosity, is all kosher wine vegan?

 

[rosends]

I'm a little embarrassed to ask, but, out of curiosity, is all kosher wine vegan?

I once asked a student who was vegan if she was OK with eating yeast or other micro-tasties.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I once asked a student who was vegan if she was OK with eating yeast or other micro-tasties.

See Fining

 

[rosends]

See Fining

The Dalton Winery has a statement on its website:

"By the way, kosher wines are not necessarily suitable for vegetarians and vegans."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Dalton Winery has a statement on its website:

"By the way, kosher wines are not necessarily suitable for vegetarians and vegans."

Can a wine that uses milk casein as a fining agent be used with meat?

Also, from Wikipedia: Vegetarianism and Wine:

The most common animal product used for fining is gelatin, due to its potency and effectiveness. Gelatin is made from the boiling of animal parts. Wine specifically responds best to type A gelatin, which is derived from the boiling of pig's skin.[1] It takes only one ounce of gelatin to clarify 1,000 gallons of wine. Gelatin is used in both white and red wines to fix haze/color and to adjust the flavor or bitterness of the wine.​

​

I can only assume that kosher wines employ neither, but I've never really given it much thought.

 

[rosends]

Can a wine that uses milk casein as a fining agent be used with meat?

Also, from Wikipedia: Vegetarianism and Wine:

The most common animal product used for fining is gelatin, due to its potency and effectiveness. Gelatin is made from the boiling of animal parts. Wine specifically responds best to type A gelatin, which is derived from the boiling of pig's skin.[1] It takes only one ounce of gelatin to clarify 1,000 gallons of wine. Gelatin is used in both white and red wines to fix haze/color and to adjust the flavor or bitterness of the wine.​

​

I can only assume that kosher wines employ neither, but I've never really given it much thought.

from the same Dalton website
"Some winemakers may use compounds such as isinglass (a fish derivative), casein (a dairy compound) or gelatin (an animal byproduct). These latter two products will severely compromise the kashrut of the wine. Dalton uses only strictly supervised kosher products and certainly no diary products."

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

from the same Dalton website
"Some winemakers may use compounds such as isinglass (a fish derivative), casein (a dairy compound) or gelatin (an animal byproduct). These latter two products will severely compromise the kashrut of the wine. Dalton uses only strictly supervised kosher products and certainly no diary products."

Interesting. Thanks.

I've had Dalton wines, of course, but I particularly like Binyamin Yogev and Tulip.

We visited the very modest Tulip winery the last time we visited Zichron Ya'akov and the Beit Aaronsohn - Nili Museum. Probably our favorite wine experience was our stay at Carmey Avdat. We love the area!

 

[rosends]

I'm a little embarrassed to ask, but, out of curiosity, is all kosher wine vegan?

Kosher Vegan Wines List

Find our list of kosher vegan wines, and read more about what makes a wine vegan or not- not for the faint of heart!

www.kosherwine.com

And I saw this image on my Facebook feed

but when I went to o the website I saw no mention of the vegan part.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And I saw this image on my Facebook feed ... but when I went to o the website I saw no mention of the vegan part.

There is, however, the claim: "Pennsylvania's Premier Kosher Winer," which strikes me as underwhelming if not a bit frightening.