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Featured Will Ummah of Muhammad (PBUH) unanimously agree on misguidance?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by danieldemol, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    1. Can you provide a citation for this saying?

    2. There is a saying of Muhammmad (PBUH) that “Islam began as something strange and will revert to being strange as it began”.

    How would Islam be strange if the majority of the followers of Muhammad were unanimously agreed on what Islam correctly is?
     
  2. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    1: At-Tirmidhi (2167) narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah pbuh said: “Allah will not cause my ummah to agree on falsehood; the hand of Allah is with the jamaa‘ah (the main body of the Muslims).” Classed as hasan by al-Albaani.

    No matter what some people will cling to truth and reject innovation and falsehood.

    2: Islam is seen as strange by unbelievers in the current day and age, and this will only increase. More and more Muslims are also happy to embrace innovation to 'fit in' and appease the liberal mindset.

    Regardless of how things move forward, there will always be a core dedicated numbering Millions, who will abide by the Qur'an and Sunnah and help Good defeat Evil, insha'Allah.
     
  3. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Does God really need our help in defeating evil? If so, in what way?
     
  4. TawheedIsTheOnlyWay

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  5. TawheedIsTheOnlyWay

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    God is self sufficient and He doesnt need anything.
    Why did He create us? Because He wants us to worship Him alone.
    Does He need our worship? No!

    And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. 51:56

    And We had certainly given Luqman wisdom [and said], "Be grateful to Allah." And whoever is grateful is grateful for [the benefit of] himself. And whoever denies [His favor] - then indeed, Allah is Free of need and Praiseworthy. 31:12

    If you disbelieve - indeed, Allah is Free from need of you. And He does not approve for His servants disbelief. And if you are grateful, He approves it for you; and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you about what you used to do. Indeed, He is Knowing of that within the breasts. 39:7

    O mankind, you are those in need of Allah , while Allah is the Free of need, the Praiseworthy. 35:15

    And We certainly sent into every nation a messenger, [saying], "Worship Allah and avoid Taghut (false gods)." 16:36
     
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  6. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    Remember we have freewill..

    On the authority of Abu Sa’eed al-Khudree (ra) who said:

    I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) say, “Whoso- ever of you sees an evil, let him change it with his hand; and if he is not able to do so, then [let him change it] with his tongue; and if he is not able to do so, then with his heart — and that is the weakest of faith.”

    We are commanded to stand up against oppression and injustice. GOD will help, aid and strengthen our resolve, but it's for good people to make a stand.
     
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  7. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    This seems a moot point, Islam has continuously been seen as strange by unbelievers, the saying says it would “revert” to something strange indicating a change in it’s perception, and perhaps indicating a purely Muslim audience that it was addressed to.
     
  8. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    I suppose you are referring to these Traditions:

    Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Islam began as a something strange and it will return to being strange, so blessed are the strangers.”
    Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 145

    Also:

    147- Ghaibat Nomani: It is narrated from Ibne Uqdah from Ali bin Hasan Taimili from Muhammad and Ahmad sons of Hasan from their father from Thalaba from Jomi Kunnasi from Abu Basir from Kamil from Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) that he said:
    “When our Qaim will appear he will call the people to a new faith like the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) has called and indeed Islam has begun strange and it will return strange as it has begun. Blessed are the strangers!”


    148- Ghaibat Nomani: It is narrated from Abdul Wahid from Muhammad bin Ja’far Qarshi from Ibne Abil Khattab from Muhammad bin Sinan from Ibne Muskan from Abu Basir that Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) said:

    “Islam has begun strange and it will return strange as it has begun.
    Blessed are the strangers!” Abu Basir said: “Please, explain to me what this means!” He said: “The Qaim will invite to a new mission as the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has done.”

    150- Ghaibat Nomani: It is narrated from Abdul Wahid from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Rabah from Muhammad bin Abbas Ibne Isa from Ibne Bataini from Shuaib Haddad from Abu Basir that he said:
    “I asked Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) to explain to me the saying of Amirul Momineen (a.s.) “Islam has begun strange and it will return strange as it has begun. Blessed are the strangers!”
    He said: “O Abu Muhammad, when the Qaim (a.s.) appears, he will invite to a new mission as the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) did.”
    I got up, kissed his head and said to him: “I witness that you are my Imam in this life and in the afterlife. I support your guardians and resist your enemies. I witness that you are the guardian of Allah.”
    He said: “May Allah have mercy upon you!”



    Its Quranic evidence is in this verse:


    "Say: "My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in His sight: such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return." Some He hath guided: Others have (by their choice) deserved the loss of their way; in that they took the evil ones, in preference to Allah, for their friends and protectors, and think that they receive guidance" 7:29-30

    Meaning, just as in the beginning of Islam some were guided, and some were not, in the same way, your return will be. So, just as in the beginning of Islam, the believers and their religion sounded strange to others, so it will be the same when the Qaim comes when He invites to a new faith and mission.



    108- Ghaibat Nomani: It is narrated from Abdul Wahid bin Abdullah from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Rabah from Ahmad bin Ali Himyari from [Hasan bin Ayyub from Abdul Karim Khathami from Ahmad bin] Hasan bin Aban from Abdullah bin Ataa that he said:
    I asked Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.): “When the Qaim (a.s.) rises, what will he do to people?” He said: “He will annul all that has been established before him as the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has done and he will resume Islam anew.”


    Meaning, just as for example when Moses or Jesus had come and established Islam in Their own time, with its own Laws and Rites, and then Muhammad later abrogated the older Islam, and brought a newer Islam in comparison with older Islams that previous Messengers had established, likewise, the Qaim will do the same thing similarly; he will abrogate older Islamic Rites, and instead will establish a new Islam. This would be very strange to the Muslims, in the same way, it was strange for Christians and Jews to accept the Islam of Muhammad as a true Religion! Therefor just as we see in verses 7:29-30 of Quran, at the time of Qaim, some will be guided and some will not, just as it was at the time of Muhammad when He brought the Islam.
     
    #8 InvestigateTruth, Dec 29, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
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  9. Srivijaya

    Srivijaya Active Member

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    The majority of non-Muslims don't see anything "strange" with Islam, rather it is seen as a religion which empowers individuals or groups to murder those they deem deluded, should they so wish.

    That's the actual 'image problem' Islam has nowadays and fanatics like ISIS do nothing to dispel that.
     
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    My question is this, how does anyone know for sure that Muhammad said anything of this, seeing Muhammad couldn't read or write, Muhammad had his wife do the Writings, So how Muhammad know what his wife was writing down, seeing Muhammad couldn't read or write??
    So it comes down to taking Muhammad's wife's word, What's Written down in the q'uran,
    Than it is Muhammad's word??

    But yet Allah is to be all powerful, but yet Allah couldn't help Muhammad to read or write.

    All the Prophet's that were way before Muhammad could read and write, all the disciples of Jesus could read and write.

    All except Muhammad. What's wrong with that picture. Go Figure ??
     
    #10 Faithofchristian, Dec 30, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  11. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    What did Prophet Jesus pbuh write? What did Moses pbuh write and what does unschooled mean?
     
  12. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You show yourself of no understanding, The scriptures came by Jesus from heaven to his Holy Prophet's, then the Holy Prophet's Written down what was given to them by Jesus, who is God.

    Morse could read and write. Prophet Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, All Holy Prophet's could read and write. But seeing you have no knowledge or understanding, of the Christian bible.
    All scriptures were already written down in heaven, then Jesus gave to his Holy Prophet's to write them down here on earth. For all mankind.
     
    #12 Faithofchristian, Dec 30, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  13. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    So the multiple people who wrote the 4 anonymous Gospels and some of the letters attributed to Paul were Prophets?

    Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

    Where's the evidence?


    I'm sure they were, but you have yet to provide evidence showing this was true of ALL Prophets.

    Believe what you like, but if you want to convince others then some evidence would be great?
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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  15. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    In Islam it is believed that the Quran is the word of God, and He had protected the Book through His Wisdom. The Hadithes are the recorded sayings of Muhammad and Shia Imams. Muhammad and the Imams have said, when a Hadith is compatible with the Quran, and there is evidence from the Quran that such a Hadith has its root in the verses of Quran, then the Hadith is to be accepted. But if a Hadith has no evidence to have originated from the Quranic verses, or is not compatible with Quran, it is to be rejected.
     
  16. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    That's right Muhammad said, which proves nothing, Muhammad could not read or write, had his silly woman wife to write for him, so how would muhammad know what his wife will write. Muhammad could not write himself.
    Muhammad did not write anything himself, Muhammad could not read or write.
    Had wife write for him.
     
  17. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get the idea that Muhammad had His wife to write for Him?
    Are you familiar with Hadithes? how they were collected, and how they were written down?
    Hadithes are the oral traditions witnessed by the companions of Muhammad and Shia Imams. These oral traditions were memorized by the companions, and were transmitted through chains of narrator and were written down. Similar to how the Bible were written. For example, if it is asked a Christian how would you know Jesus was resurrected, they will tell, because it was seen by 'Witnesses'. in the same way, if you ask how you know the Hadithes were indeed the sayings of Muhammad, it can be said, they were witnessed by His companions, and also the Hadithes are compatible with Quran. The Hadithes were not written by Muhammad's wife. Almost all of them were witness by His companions, and were collected and written later through oral transmission.
     
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  18. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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  19. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I notice that you interpret the “jamaa’ah” as “the main body of the Muslims” what do you make of the opinion of Abdullah ibn Masood who said,
    “The Jamaa’ah is what is in accordance to the truth, even if you were alone (in that).”

    ‘He used to tell his students explicitly that the majority of the people have departed from the Jamaa’ah. That was still in the time of the leadership of the rightly guided Caliphs.’

    Information sourced from;
    Avoiding the Misguided Sects: The Prophetic Solution | Bakkah.net
     
    #19 danieldemol, Jan 1, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  20. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe He has done just that so the narrator was talking off the top of his head which is a phrase meaning out of his ignorance.

    I believe a great deal would not seem strange to a Christian. There is the reverence for a rock that seems at odds with not believing in idols but maybe that is just a cultural misunderstanding on my part.
     
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