Will the real Islam please stand up

[England my lionheart]

I don't think he said or meant that...because that would make him a kafir ,himself

Hi Maro,i disagree

not that they believe in other deities besides God or because they worship anyone other than God, but [that] their way of life is not based on submission to God alone. Although they believe in the Unity of God, still they have relegated the legislative attribute of God to others and submit to this authority. [p.82]​

i have started reading milestones after you asked about it in the Islam DIR...i haven't finished it yet ,so i can't judge it.....all i can say is that i have no problem with what i am reading so far...the main idea i got from the book is 'Secularism is kufr'..which is not news ,really

Agree,no news there

another thing , is that there are no qutbs , Sayyed qutb was a sunni muslim ,just like 90% of muslims

But not all Sunnis are the same are they

 

[aymen amir]

yes i heard this story but if you look carefully at the previous article states that if rebelling on the ruler will cause more damage than good then its not allowed( check this out)


http://www.taimiah.org/Display.asp?f=aqt0148.htm

 

[maro]

I don't think he said or meant that...because that would make him a kafir ,himself

Hi Maro,i disagree

not that they believe in other deities besides God or because they worship anyone other than God, but [that] their way of life is not based on submission to God alone. Although they believe in the Unity of God, still they have relegated the legislative attribute of God to others and submit to this authority. [p.82]
​

the above quote refers to those who support 'secularism as an ideology ,not those who live in secular countries or not ruled by the shariah as you have mentioned
​

But not all Sunnis are the same are they

Sunnis have the same creed ,based on the quran and the sunna of the prophet (PBUH) ,
but yes they differ in the degrees of moderation and extremism ,i agree....but this doesn't make them ' many sects'

yes i heard this story but if you look carefully the article states that if rebelling on the ruler will cause more damage than good then its not allowed

I agree with that

 

[England my lionheart]

the above quote refers to those who support 'secularism as an ideology ,not those who live in secular countries or not ruled by the shariah as you have mentioned
​

Sunnis have the same creed ,based on the quran and the sunna of the prophet (PBUH) ,
but yes they differ in the degrees of moderation and extremism ,i agree....but this doesn't make them ' many sects'

In the hadith your Prophet says there will be 73 sects of Islam and only one will be rightly guided.

 

[Cordoba]

Epic title..Cordoba, what do you think of Yusuf Estes? He was my favorite when I was studying Islam
-Dot

Yusuf Estes is an excellent speaker who in recent years has many a lot of effort to explain Islam to those who are interested to learn about Islam

 

[ruhnafsoul]

Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said "Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one." The companions asked, 'Who are they O Messenger of Allah,' Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "They are those who will be like me and my companions."

So which sect is it? after reading Sayyid Qutbs "Milestones" Qutbists seem to think its them,what do you think?

well..I'm touched with the issue that has been discuss around here.. in particular, about this hadisth, by my beloved prophet MUHAMMAD SAW..

And to my opinion, the one sect or whateva U may call them, by which he MUHAMMAD SAW had said " They are those who will be like me and my companions".. are those who have their highest 'mahabba' (love) to HIM and those who give the highest regard (takzeem) to him with full sincere (siddiq).. as he, prophet MUHAMMAD SAW, is the HABIBULLAH, THE BELOVED OF ALLAH, the One that ALLAH The Almighty and all the angels loves very very much.. The beloved one who is by him the knowledge comes in the past , present, and till the end of our life.. who is physically had passed away 1400 years ago but spiritually alive in the heart of those who love him... as what God had said in the holy quran Al-KAREEM.. 'if U love ALLAH, follow me (MUHAMMAD SAW) and ALLAH will love U'

Those are the real companions of HIM..whose heart are alive all the time with the rememberence of ALLAH and HIS BELOVED ONE.. the true companions from the past, present and till the end... not just a get-to-know friend or a religious-forum-sake friend..

May ALLAH The Mot Merciful The Most Compassionate grant me His LOVE to HIS Beloved One.. MUHAMMAD SAW.. The last of the prophets..

 

[England my lionheart]

well..I'm touched with the issue that has been discuss around here.. in particular, about this hadisth, by my beloved prophet MUHAMMAD SAW..

And to my opinion, the one sect or whateva U may call them, by which he MUHAMMAD SAW had said " They are those who will be like me and my companions".. are those who have their highest 'mahabba' (love) to HIM and those who give the highest regard (takzeem) to him with full sincere (siddiq).. as he, prophet MUHAMMAD SAW, is the HABIBULLAH, THE BELOVED OF ALLAH, the One that ALLAH The Almighty and all the angels loves very very much.. The beloved one who is by him the knowledge comes in the past , present, and till the end of our life.. who is physically had passed away 1400 years ago but spiritually alive in the heart of those who love him... as what God had said in the holy quran Al-KAREEM.. 'if U love ALLAH, follow me (MUHAMMAD SAW) and ALLAH will love U'

Those are the real companions of HIM..whose heart are alive all the time with the rememberence of ALLAH and HIS BELOVED ONE.. the true companions from the past, present and till the end... not just a get-to-know friend or a religious-forum-sake friend..

May ALLAH The Mot Merciful The Most Compassionate grant me His LOVE to HIS Beloved One.. MUHAMMAD SAW.. The last of the prophets..

Thanks for the reply,i agree that the hadith is pretty straightforward,none the less there are many sects and more than 73 which the Prophet fortold,the question arises,why after reading such a hadith are Muslims still in doubt as to which is the rightly guided path,here is another hadith which i am sure you are aquainted with.

Al-Harith al-Ashari (ra) reported that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “I bid you to do five things: to remain attached to the main body (Jama’ah of Muslims), listen to your ruler (the Khalifah of the Islamic state) and obey him, and migrate, and fight in the way of Allah. And he who detaches himself from the main body of the Muslims (Jama’ah) to the extent of one span of hand, he in fact, throws off the yoke of Islam from his neck, and he who summons to what the pre-Islamic people believed (e.g. like asabiyah) he is one from the denizens of Hell beyond doubt, even if he observes fast and says prayers and considers himself as a Muslim.”(Musnad (Hadith Collection) of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, no. 288)

 

[Cordoba]

In May 2008, this event was held at Creighton University in the US, where Dalia Mugahed gave a presentation on her book titled (Who Speaks for Islam) co-authored with Prof. John Esposito, based on the Gallup research project between 2001 & 2007

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=886027736881885889

After the introduction, Dalia's talk starts at minute 14 of the video

 

[Fatihah]

Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said "Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one." The companions asked, 'Who are they O Messenger of Allah,' Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "They are those who will be like me and my companions."

So which sect is it? after reading Sayyid Qutbs "Milestones" Qutbists seem to think its them,what do you think?

Response: The sect that follows the qur'an and the sunnah are like Muhammad (saw) and his companions. The sect has no name, in case that was your next question.

 

[footprints]

Here is an attempt at an answer
The answer is that those who follow the Prophets(PBUH) words and recognise him as their true spiritual companion are the exception, mentioned above without a defined name.

Those who believe they are a sect, or give a defined name to their group are automatically one of the 72 for they cause division. For this reason the Prophet did not reply with a name of a group or sect. His message was that of the word of Allah. Only the word of Allah is worth following. Allah requires no group or sect to be better from the next, rather all require Allah for their exitance. The true woshiper of Allah, will place Allah above all sects and groups and all will be in the fire except that one.

As all sects of Islam believe they are following the Great Prophets teachings, it could be any one of them.

My belief, to know for sure, a person must follow the same path of enlightenment as the Great Prophet did. To become one, in the Great Prophets image. Only then, in the same state of enlightenment, will they know for sure. The Great Prophets vision, Peace unto all people, without abuse or war.

 

[kai]

The problem is when a religion becomes so large , when it has millions of adherents, then you get disparity. There are so many cultural influences involved that its inevitable that sects will appear, I think its human nature to put your own slant on things even if your doing it blatantly or subconsciously. People tend to stray from its roots, its origins.

 

[Tiapan]

The fact that islam is a patriarchal sociopolitical system means that after contraception revolution (mid 20th century), it has ideological gaps that were never considered during its writing a thousand years ago and as such is therefore loosing relevance in a modern context.

Cheers

 

[Cordoba]

The fact that islam is a patriarchal sociopolitical system means that after contraception revolution (mid 20th century), it has ideological gaps that were never considered during its writing a thousand years ago and as such is therefore loosing relevance in a modern context.

Cheers

Not at all

Islam has fixed matters which don't change with time, but it also has an in-built mechanism for change in matters which change with time, like new transactions for example (financial, ... etc.)

And that is where the concept of tajdid takes place, which is finding solutions and answers to new situations and transactions

Islam has a sound methdology in dealing with that matter and that's why it's as relevant to us today as it was relevant to the first generation of Muslims 14 centuries ago ...

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: The sect that follows the qur'an and the sunnah are like Muhammad (saw) and his companions. The sect has no name, in case that was your next question.

This is the interesting part Fatihah,the Sect has no name yet there are 73 Sects,as a revivalist Qutb seemed to think the only rightly guided Muslims are those living under the Sharia and any Muslims living under Human rule are jahili as well.

 

[Fatihah]

This is the interesting part Fatihah,the Sect has no name yet there are 73 Sects,as a revivalist Qutb seemed to think the only rightly guided Muslims are those living under the Sharia and any Muslims living under Human rule are jahili as well.

Response: In the qur'an, we are clearly told not to be divided into sects. Muhammad (saw) never claimed a sect either.

 

[DallasApple]

I believe people like .lava are representative of what Islam is.(or should be)

She is honest ..uses common sense.. seeks to learn and has clearly a loving heart.That can not be the wrong way.

Love

Dallas

 

[ruhnafsoul]

Thanks for the reply,i agree that the hadith is pretty straightforward,none the less there are many sects and more than 73 which the Prophet fortold,the question arises,why after reading such a hadith are Muslims still in doubt as to which is the rightly guided path,here is another hadith which i am sure you are aquainted with.

Al-Harith al-Ashari (ra) reported that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “I bid you to do five things: to remain attached to the main body (Jama’ah of Muslims), listen to your ruler (the Khalifah of the Islamic state) and obey him, and migrate, and fight in the way of Allah. And he who detaches himself from the main body of the Muslims (Jama’ah) to the extent of one span of hand, he in fact, throws off the yoke of Islam from his neck, and he who summons to what the pre-Islamic people believed (e.g. like asabiyah) he is one from the denizens of Hell beyond doubt, even if he observes fast and says prayers and considers himself as a Muslim.”(Musnad (Hadith Collection) of Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, no. 288)

thank you my dear fren... for quoting another beautiful and straightforward hadith.. which, by initial and general understanding, it speak about the instructions for obedient and unity in a matters of faith and action in Islam.. and there many other hadith that spoke about the same matters for the understanding of every muslim. However, I suggest that the discussion on specific hadith shall be discussed on an other appropriate forum.. with reference to the studied hadith..
In Islam, we have to know both.. the syariah and the haqiqa.. The syariah is like the physical action and the haqiqa is like the spiritual believe.. we have to have both.. then we can / may become a mukmin, the believer (may Allah granted HIS BELIEVE to the one whom HE rightly guided).
The syariah is like the 5 pillars of Islam i.e pronouncing the syahadah, performing prayers 5 times a day, fasting in the month of ramadhan, pay zakat and perform hajj if (if we had the ability) whereas the haqiqa is like the 6 pillars of Iman (faith)..which are believing in 1-ALLAH, 2-His Rasul (prophets), 3-Angels, 4-Akhirat (End, Judgement Day & Next Life), 5- Qada' & Qadar (things that has been destined / created for U) and 6-Al-ghaib (the unforseen matters)
Those are things that every mukmin follows.. because the syariah / the action in 5 pillars of islam can only be taste by the believe in the 6 pillars of Iman (faith).. we taste the syariah by the haqiqa.. then we will understand Islam and will have the true knowledge of why we become a muslim..

And the same will go for the Quran and all the hadiths.. by knowing the inner (spiritual) meanings of it, then we can taste the outer (syariah) meaning of it.. otherwise, it will become just a normal book of reference wrote by a person.. the imprint of the knowledge.. not the TRUE / REAL knowledge.. as the REAL / TRUTH are Divine.. and touches every heart of the believer.. as the heart is a matters of Al-Ghaib (the unforseen by normal eyes)..
As the true mukmin.. they are the one who follows rasul and his sunnah.. and we have to learn to get the knowledge.. from the one who has the knowledge.. not from the book..
forgive me.. tq

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: In the qur'an, we are clearly told not to be divided into sects. Muhammad (saw) never claimed a sect either.

The Messenger said: "Indeed this Ummah will split into seventy three sects and all of them are in the Fire except for one and that is the Jamaa'ah" [11]

Ahl us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah,so anyone who deviates or innovates from this path are the other 72 sects,Salafis who some refer to as Wahabis seem to consider themselves as the Jamaa'ah .

 

[Cordoba]

Response: In the qur'an, we are clearly told not to be divided into sects. Muhammad (saw) never claimed a sect either.

You're quite right

Divisions which took place after Prophet Muhammad

The Qur'an clearly instructs Muslims to be united

 

[England my lionheart]

You're quite right

Divisions which took place after Prophet Muhammad

The Qur'an clearly instructs Muslims to be united

I 'm not saying it does'nt Cordoba,as for the two Hadith i quoted both warn about straying from the rightly guided path yet there are still many sects.