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Will God save the world or a few?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Truth101, Jul 14, 2006.

?
  1. Yes, definitely everyone

    11 vote(s)
    47.8%
  2. No, only a few

    3 vote(s)
    13.0%
  3. My paster says he doesnt know so neither do I

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. God can't save all because of mans freewill

    9 vote(s)
    39.1%
  1. Moses the God Archetype*

    Moses the God Archetype* Active Member

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    Very well put mike182.
     
  2. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    I grew up attending a church of Christ and was taught the same as you: "Anyone who doesn't follow the Bible as our church does, are going to burn forever in Hell." But it wasn't until I was about 10 that I really realized what that meant. So I asked the Sunday school teacher, "My grandmother is a Christian, but she attends a different church, (a Christian church that allowed instrumental music to be played). Is she going to Hell too?" The teacher quite calmly answered, "Yes, she is going to Hell with all the other sinners." I was quite shocked. I've never known, even to this day, a person more dedicated and in love with their faith and Jesus than my grandmother. She's in her 80's now and still volunteers to help the in community, gives her time and energy to doing what she believes Jesus calls her to do: help others. Whenever I go over to her house, on her dining room table is at least 2 or 3 copies of the Bible, study guides and notes she's taken. She still reads and studies her Bible everyday.

    Now, I tell you all this because it was this incident that made me seriously start to question the things that were being taught to me at that church. How could the loving, compassionate God that I knew, that watched over me and loved me, condemn a good Christian woman like my grandmother simply because she went to the wrong church? How could a loving, compassionate God condemn ANY good person who had tried to live a good life, simply because they were in the wrong religion, or wrong part of the world? It didn't make sense to me, and it still doesn't. My questions just grew and grew and I was never given any satisfactory answers ("just have faith and believe") that is when I was brave enough to ask at all, because questioning was not encouraged and if you questioned that meant you didn't have enough faith. Long story short, my parents decided to leave that church about 4 years later.


    My beliefs have gone through some major changes from what I was taught as a child. I no longer think hell is a literal place, and quite regularly question even the existence of a deity at all. But I still cannot conceive of a loving God that would condemn good people of any belief.
     
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  3. sandy whitelinger

    sandy whitelinger Veteran Member

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    Again, you need to take the whole Bible into consideration. Perhaps the word perish helps to undestand this as in, "God so loved the world that that He sent His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." Notice that everlasting life is in juxtaposition to perish.





    The reconciliation comes through the atoning work of Christ.




    Yes! From John 3:19, "And this is the condemnation, that light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

    This is not the only passage yet it is enough to suffice. You just refuse them.




    God does not interfere with man's choice to accept Him or reject Him.

    Again, you fail to take the whole counsel into consideration. Why leave out verse 11 and 12? "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation..." Clearly the following verses refer to those who have accepted Christ.

    Lets just see what all this says about your God.


    As I said before, God does not interfere with the choice of man to reject or accept Him yet has set up consequences for both choices.



    As I said before, God does not interfere with the choice of man to reject or accept Him yet has set up consequences for both choices.



    As I said before, God does not interfere with the choice of man to reject or accept Him yet has set up consequences for both choices.



    It is also the will of God that there be consequences for rejecting Him. Love is not the overiding force you seem to think it is. God loved His own Son yet sent Him to the grave as well.

    God is also a God of Justice.


    Jesus proved otherwise with His victory over death.



    Again, the victory came through Jesus' death, burial and resurrection.




    The only point I got was that you reject or misinterpret parts of scripture by taking them out of context of the whole.
     
  4. Fluffy

    Fluffy A fool

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    Hmmm I can sort of go along with that one but I would still raise a small quibble over the idea of being saved.

    To illustate this, we would find it weird if somebody said "God saved me from my 18th birthday party in which I was having the time of my life". This is still using the term "save" correctly but the implication normally associated with it is that we are being saved from something negative whereas in this situation, we are being saved from something positive.

    However, there appears to be no justification as of yet as to why death is a negative thing. Perhaps it is a neutral or positive state? Either way, it still seems like "save" is brings associations with it that would only be accurate if death were a negative state.

    Why was this an expression of love when God was already making such a deal before Christ perished?
     
  5. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    So, you think that death is something positive? Or am I misunderstanding you?
     
  6. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    There is no wrong church. But, there is no right church either.
     
  7. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    I think there is right and wrong religions and churches for individuals. For example, UU is right for me, but I wouldn't do very well as a Roman Catholic. But that wasn't my point.

     
  8. Ezzedean

    Ezzedean Active Member

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    I can agree that if you dont believe in Christ, you dont believe in God, but at the same time if you don't believe in Moses you don't believe in God, and if you don't believe in Noah you don't believe in God and if you don't believe in Abraham you don't believe in God... so are you saying that you are condemned if you dont believe in Christ as the son of God? Also, can you believe in Christ without following or believing in the other prophets?
     
  9. Ezzedean

    Ezzedean Active Member

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    I can respect your view Maize and will at all times, but may I just give you my perspective?

    I believe there is one right way and a million wrong ways. We can't all be right. Just because something feels right to a certain individual it doesn't mean that it is. It may feel right for someone to go to a building, sing a song, and then have a ritual in which he and his fellow worshippers slap eachother in the face five times.... now, this might make them happy, and this might feel right to them, but we can't say that it is. There is one true way.... I can personally say that I believe in the one true way, but I can't tell you that it is the one true way.

    I feel that one day we'll all be given the answer, and we'll all know the truth without any doubt, and we'll all worship the same way, pray the same way, live the same way and we'll all understand together. Now I don't believe this is going to happen anytime soon, and I also don't believe that we will live this way on Earth, but I do believe it will happen.

    God will throw our ignorance in our face and make it clear to us all that was wrong and all that is right.

    Peace
     
  10. Radar

    Radar Active Member

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    God will save nothing because there is no god.
     
  11. Truth101

    Truth101 Member

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    Really? Well I guess they should just shut this site down and everyone can just stop talking about it. We may as well just pack up our posts and start a big bombfire.
    Very stimulating post I might add, it gives me something to ponder.

    Dave
     
  12. Elvendon

    Elvendon Mystical Tea Dispenser

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    Our sharing in God's nature, being and presence. Not becoming Gods or God ourselves, but just being fully reconciled with, aware of and in concord with Him.
     
  13. Truth101

    Truth101 Member

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  14. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Jehovah is guarding all those loving him,​

    But all the wicked ones he will annihilate. psalm 145;20
    (Psalm 1:6) For Jehovah is taking knowledge of the way of righteous ones, But the very way of wicked ones will perish.
    (Proverbs 2:22) As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it............ nothing about hellfire mentioned here.
    That eternal life is possible is shown by these words: "Furthermore, this is the promised thing which he himself promised us, the life everlasting." (1 John 2:25) for those who want it there is a promise of life everlasting. but some dont want it . free will coming into play .
    Salvation from death is a gift from God to those that obey him, not to those that disobey. some dont want it, that is there choice.
    A person cannot expect God’s favor when he refuses to exercise faith in the Father as a Savior and in the One whom the Father sent to make salvation possible. its all about freewill , we can have everlasting life ,or we can have everlasting death . the bible does not teach torture. that is a manmade doctrine not based on accurate bible teaching. life or death, our choice.

     
  15. Truth101

    Truth101 Member

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  16. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    It is God's permissive will that all be saved, but all won't because of a free will decision to reject Christ. God's permissive will is different from His Sovereign will which means whatever He carry's out as His purpose will come to pass.
     
  17. Truth101

    Truth101 Member

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    Now God has 2 wills? Wow you will have to outline these for me in scripture as I only discuss the scriptures not opinions. Thanks

    Dave
     
  18. Ody

    Ody Well-Known Member

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    G-d doesn't have an ego :)

    Alteast one that is hurt soooo bad, that he sends you to an eternity of hell for not believing in him. What a base G-d that would make :p
     
  19. Mystic-als

    Mystic-als Active Member

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    Well said Alan. It does boil down to how we see God. Except for Athiests obviously. They have it easy.
     
  20. may

    may Well-Known Member

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