Will God save the world or a few?

[Truth101]

Scripture teaches us that in the consumation of the ages that God will be ALL in ALL. How many truly believe that? Lets see what the scriptures say and go with that.

"For God sent NOT his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that THE WORLD through Him might be SAVED" (John 3:17)!

"…the Lamb of God , which takes away the sin of THE WORLD" (John 1:29)!

"And He is the propitiation for our sins [satisfactorily covered all sin] and not for our’s only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD" (I John 2:2)!

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (I John 4:14)!

"…for when Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of THE WORLD will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9)!

"…for we have heard Him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of THE WORLD" (John 4:42)!

"To wit that God was in Christ, reconciling THE WORLD unto Himself, NOT imputing their trespasses unto them…" (II Cor. 5:19)!

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation [will you accept it?] that Christ Jesus came into THE WORLD to SAVE SINNERS…" (I Tim. 1:15)!
"And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge Him not, for I came not to judge the world, but to SAVE THE WORLD" (John 12:47)!
​

How then can one believe all of these Scriptures and yet believe that Jesus will NOT SAVE, but will eternally torture in the lake of fire most of THE WORLD?

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour: Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4).

The word "will" is the word "thelos". This word does not mean "wishes", "hopes", "desires" as most say that is what is being said. Lets look at another scripture where the word "thelos" is used and try and apply this same reasoning.

"our father who art in heaven, hollowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come thy "will" (thelos) be done"

How about that? I have many more passages I can use but these posts are limited.

Thy hope be done? Thy wishes be done? Thy desire be done? NO! Thy WILL be done. It WILL be done. Let's see more.

"So shall my WORD be that goes forth OUT OF MY MOUTH it shall NOT return into me void, but it SHALL ACCOMPLISH THAT WHICH I PLEASE, and it SHALL PROSPER IN THE THING WHERETO I SENT IT" (Isaiah 55:11).

Now I guess that since the word "please" here is used then it must take away any authority from this passage. Nonsense. Just because He is pleased with what He has done or plans to do does not for a second take away any faith in His actually accomplishing it.

So what is the Fathers will?

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Now lets look on. Many believe (because of the mistranslation of the words "aion" and "aionios" in words of infinite duration) Most of mankind will burn IN a fire forever, no end, no mercy, no relief, ever.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

All through scripture we are told that it is the will of God that all WILL be saved, that it is His WILL that none should parish. It is His will that all come to the knowledge of the truth. Yet many insist that it will not happen.

They have placed Gods will in subjection to human will rather than mans will be in subjection to Gods will. I believe this is what is called worshipping and serving the creature more than the creator. It is idolatry to attempt to bring our Lords will down to a puny human will that can merely hope that things turn out the way He PLANNED. Man has hope, God has His authority, power and Godhead expressed through His WILL. He is the almighty who WILL accomplish that which He wills to do.

God Bless, Dave

 

[Smoke]

Save the world from what?

 

[Truth101]

Save the world from what?

From death.

 

[Smoke]

From death.

So nobody has to die?

 

[Mystic-als]

God won't save anyone. Because we don't need saving. It's about time people stop expecting God to save them from a bad world. And they start changing their world to be a place they don't want to be saved from.

 

[Green Gaia]

We do need saving, not from a firey pit and eternal damnation, but from ourselves. And it will be ourselves who save us.

 

[Moses the God Archetype*]

:yoda: For this is very true beloved(mystic-als)it is up to us to save our selves krsna only shows us the path, but we have to tread that path and go on that journey in search of the self, tho he is ever with us we make our own choices according to our karma, temperament, and the guna that predominates in our personality.m:

 

[Fluffy]

From death.

Ah well if that is what he is saving us from then I am forced to answer with "only a few... and possibly none" since people have clearly died and will continue to die for the foreseeable future.

We do need saving, not from a firey pit and eternal damnation, but from ourselves. And it will be ourselves who save us.

Yeah I feel I must agree. I find the whole "Jesus died for our sins" very contradictory to "God gave us free will".

Also I can't help but view the idea that humans do not have the power to save themselves as very unhealthy, psychologically speaking.

 

[Truth101]

Ah well if that is what he is saving us from then I am forced to answer with "only a few... and possibly none" since people have clearly died and will continue to die for the foreseeable future.

I am at a loss as to why you cannot understand the simple dialect I am using. All people die a physical death. You will die a physical death, I will die a physical death. Now, without Christ you would never again live (although not in a physical body). This is a biblical debate remember. It is designed so others who have knowledge of the "bible" can attempt to refute statements others make concerning scripture.

Yeah I feel I must agree. I find the whole "Jesus died for our sins" very contradictory to "God gave us free will".

Man does not have any "freewill". We have a will but it is not free from outside cause or influences. Every action is a reaction to another action and no one is exempt from this. To have freewill one would need to be free from this. So really it is the theory that man has freewill that is contradictory to anything scriptural.

Also I can't help but view the idea that humans do not have the power to save themselves as very unhealthy, psychologically speaking.

Well when you die you can be the first to raise yourself and walk again and be our example of a healthy psychological ressurrection. Please let me know whe you are close to this point and I will personally monitor your supernatural power of immortality and document it as I will sell the video along with my personal footage of bigfoot and the lochness monster.

God bless, Dave

 

[Smoke]

I am at a loss as to why you cannot understand the simple dialect I am using. All people die a physical death. You will die a physical death, I will die a physical death. Now, without Christ you would never again live (although not in a physical body). This is a biblical debate remember. It is designed so others who have knowledge of the "bible" can attempt to refute statements others make concerning scripture.

It's a biblical debate, but biblical debates aren't restricted to Evangelicals or even to Christians. I've been reading some of your posts, and I think you have some interesting ideas; I'm trying to provoke some real dialogue here.

That's why I'm asking, what exactly are you saying that God will save us from? Why do we need to be saved? And if God is the Creator of all things, isn't he responsible for whatever situation humanity finds itself in, anyway? Wouldn't he be saving us, ultimately, from himself?

 

[Radio Frequency X]

God won't save anyone. Because we don't need saving. It's about time people stop expecting God to save them from a bad world. And they start changing their world to be a place they don't want to be saved from.

Ah yes, a healthy dose of wisdom. I do grow tired of hearing about how this is an evil fallen world. I find it to be quite the a beautiful place even with all the terrible things that go on here. When one dreams of perfection all day, it is no wonder that reality seems so bad.

 

[Truth101]

It's a biblical debate, but biblical debates aren't restricted to Evangelicals or even to Christians. I've been reading some of your posts, and I think you have some interesting ideas; I'm trying to provoke some real dialogue here.

That's why I'm asking, what exactly are you saying that God will save us from? Why do we need to be saved? And if God is the Creator of all things, isn't he responsible for whatever situation humanity finds itself in, anyway? Wouldn't he be saving us, ultimately, from himself?

Ultimately He is saving us from the grave and from our fallen state (sinfullness, sickness requiring treatment and healing). Yes I believe God has taken the responsability of our situation since He alone is God and knows exactly what He is doing. We are accountable for our actions but God is responsable for us just as a parent is responsable for their children. If you tell your child not to jump ramps on his bike and he does it anyway and smashes his face on the concrete the child suffers from the temporary pain and scarring and is accountable for it himself but the reaponsability of the parent is to make sure he gets the apporpriate treatment in healing his woulnds and caring for him. We suffer consequences but all consequences are not eternal they are temporal and do heal with the appropraite measure taken (Christ)

God Bless, Dave.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Scripture teaches us that in the consumation of the ages that God will be ALL in ALL. How many truly believe that? Lets see what the scriptures say and go with that.

"For God sent NOT his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that THE WORLD through Him might be SAVED" (John 3:17)!

"…the Lamb of God , which takes away the sin of THE WORLD" (John 1:29)!

"And He is the propitiation for our sins [satisfactorily covered all sin] and not for our’s only, but also for the sins of THE WHOLE WORLD" (I John 2:2)!

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD" (I John 4:14)!

"…for when Thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of THE WORLD will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9)!

"…for we have heard Him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of THE WORLD" (John 4:42)!

"To wit that God was in Christ, reconciling THE WORLD unto Himself, NOT imputing their trespasses unto them…" (II Cor. 5:19)!

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation [will you accept it?] that Christ Jesus came into THE WORLD to SAVE SINNERS…" (I Tim. 1:15)!
"And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge Him not, for I came not to judge the world, but to SAVE THE WORLD" (John 12:47)!

​

How then can one believe all of these Scriptures and yet believe that Jesus will NOT SAVE, but will eternally torture in the lake of fire most of THE WORLD?

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour: Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Tim. 2:4).

The word "will" is the word "thelos". This word does not mean "wishes", "hopes", "desires" as most say that is what is being said. Lets look at another scripture where the word "thelos" is used and try and apply this same reasoning.

"our father who art in heaven, hollowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come thy "will" (thelos) be done"

How about that? I have many more passages I can use but these posts are limited.

Thy hope be done? Thy wishes be done? Thy desire be done? NO! Thy WILL be done. It WILL be done. Let's see more.

"So shall my WORD be that goes forth OUT OF MY MOUTH it shall NOT return into me void, but it SHALL ACCOMPLISH THAT WHICH I PLEASE, and it SHALL PROSPER IN THE THING WHERETO I SENT IT" (Isaiah 55:11).

Now I guess that since the word "please" here is used then it must take away any authority from this passage. Nonsense. Just because He is pleased with what He has done or plans to do does not for a second take away any faith in His actually accomplishing it.

So what is the Fathers will?

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Now lets look on. Many believe (because of the mistranslation of the words "aion" and "aionios" in words of infinite duration) Most of mankind will burn IN a fire forever, no end, no mercy, no relief, ever.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned,he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

All through scripture we are told that it is the will of God that all WILL be saved, that it is His WILL that none should parish. It is His will that all come to the knowledge of the truth. Yet many insist that it will not happen.

They have placed Gods will in subjection to human will rather than mans will be in subjection to Gods will. I believe this is what is called worshipping and serving the creature more than the creator. It is idolatry to attempt to bring our Lords will down to a puny human will that can merely hope that things turn out the way He PLANNED. Man has hope, God has His authority, power and Godhead expressed through His WILL. He is the almighty who WILL accomplish that which He wills to do.

God Bless, Dave

This is the misunderstanding that happens when one doesn't take all of scripture into account. For example this verse from John 3:18 refutes clearly your assertation:

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

It is not the will of God that any should perish but it is the rejection of Christ that condemns.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Save the world from what?

Are you that ignorant of the message of the Bible or do you just reject it?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

God won't save anyone. Because we don't need saving. It's about time people stop expecting God to save them from a bad world. And they start changing their world to be a place they don't want to be saved from.

I'm not so sure that I'm going to take seriously anyone whose basis of faith is "marbles on a trampoline."

 

[Smoke]

Are you that ignorant of the message of the Bible or do you just reject it?

I am not ignorant of what Evangelicals imagine to be the message of the Bible, but I do reject that imagining. I reject much of what is in Paul, and I reject the idea that any book at all is inerrant.

That's not the same as rejecting the Bible. I love the Bible.

 

[Quiddity]

Yeah I feel I must agree. I find the whole "Jesus died for our sins" very contradictory to "God gave us free will".

Not for me. We often find each other disagreeing about this and would enjoy to have a one vs. one if you wish?

Also I can't help but view the idea that humans do not have the power to save themselves as very unhealthy, psychologically speaking.

In RC theology it's not impossible.

 

[michel]

God will save all.....eventually; some will take longer to get 'there', but eventually, we all will.

 

[Quiddity]

God will save all.....eventually; some will take longer to get 'there', but eventually, we all will.

Now this would seem to me to violate free will. Will not some chose NOT TO be in communion with Him? Is so, where will they go?

 

[onmybelief]

I believe God "can't" save us all because we have free will. We have to choose in our hearts to accept God and be saved.