Will Christianity Die?

[Kenny]

How does legal abortion influence your life?

The same way prostitution influences lives. It may not directly affect me but it affects humanity as a whole and indirectly affect me in how people are treated. Imagine if it were legal to "relive the burden of supporting older people because it is a financial burden on me" - were the next step using the same analogy that people use for abortion.

Humanists don't try to impose their ways on anybody except perhaps taxpayers. Humanism is about enabling people, not controlling them.

SIXTH: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of “new thought”. - Humanist Manifesto I

Very menacing to me.

NINTH: In the place of the old attitudes involved in worship and prayer the humanist finds his religious emotions expressed in a heightened sense of personal life and in a cooperative effort to promote social well-being.

Replacement theology

ELEVENTH: Man will learn to face the crises of life in terms of his knowledge of their naturalness and probability. Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom. We assume that humanism will take the path of social and mental hygiene and discourage sentimental and unreal hopes and wishful thinking.


Educational control - we see that happening.

I could go on.

My freedom from religion doesn't hurt you, but it does help me. I support their effort, which is NOT directed at any believer. If the FFRF called the shots, you could be a Christian and I an atheist. If your church called the shots, well, just look at the Ten Commandments and recent theocratic advances in America. Here are some indications of what the people who Christians admire have in mind for America if they get their way

Freedom from religion is encompassed by Freedom of Religion. I support that. However, Freedom From Religion has a political effort to get rid of religion and "just keep it in the four walls of your church"

"There is a value in spiritual violence," Hagee declared, "and it is time that you considered the role that you are playing or not playing and whether or not it's time for you to become more aggressive in your beliefs" - Matthew Hagee

Context. Quote mining?

"I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good . . . our goal is a Christian nation. We have the biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism" - Randall Terry, Director of Operation Rescue

Besides quote mining and context, how is this different from "Our goal is a Humanistic nation"?

"The long term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to his Church's public marks of the covenant-baptism and holy communion-must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel." - Gary North

How is this different from "Humanism trying to gain exclusive control over the franchise and those who refuse to submit...."?

"I hope to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be." - Jerry Falwell

Nice "wish" by good ol' Jerry... but I certainly would like today's "public schools" to have a BIG change... - I would agree this was wrong.

"There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world." - Pat Robertson

Context? Of course we believe that when Jesus comes that will happen

 

[Kenny]

I appreciate the "one of the most" because I'd have an issue with "the only".



The difference between us is that you find your life oriented around Jesus and fulfillment in a structure, the church. I have no quibble with that. We should all follow the best path we know, the one that satisfies the longing of our hearts.

There are many rivers that lead to the "sea" and in the end, it's the sea that matters not the river one used.

And I am fully comfortable with people having a different belief than mine in this context.

 

[Brickjectivity]

No.

I was ready to kill myself after getting PTSD fighting in Afghanistan. Here’s what turned everything around

The impact of faith in Jesus will always keep it alive.

I think AI will, down the line, need to be something to think about. Christians don't let animals join the church (usually), so if (if I repeat if) artificial intelligence becomes human-ish then the churches will have to make a decision about whether to fellowship AI people or not. It will be a test. It will raise questions. Such AI people may well wonder if they are part of God's creation or not, because they may not breath or have blood. They may not be waterproof or may not have 2 eyes. They may be very different from us in physical form or mental capability, and God may well want them in the church. It will test the churches if that happens.

 

[Kenny]

I think AI will, down the line, need to be something to think about. Christians don't let animals join the church (usually), so if (if I repeat if) artificial intelligence becomes human-ish then the churches will have to make a decision about whether to fellowship AI people or not. It will be a test. It will raise questions. Such AI people may well wonder if they are part of God's creation or not, because they may not breath or have blood. They may not be waterproof or may not have 2 eyes. They may be very different from us in physical form or mental capability, and God may well want them in the church. It will test the churches if that happens.

Interesting thought. hmmmm....

 

[metis]

Freedom From Religion Foundation - Freedom From Religion Foundation

Their very effort is anti-God believing people

But don't atheists, agnostics, and people in other faiths have rights as well?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The same way prostitution influences lives. It may not directly affect me but it affects humanity as a whole and indirectly affect me in how people are treated. Imagine if it were legal to "relive the burden of supporting older people because it is a financial burden on me" - were the next step using the same analogy that people use for abortion.

Your comment had been, "Any law influences people who don't believe in that law." Abortion rights don't diminish your rights at all unless you think you have the right to dictate how others may live.

We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of “new thought”. - Humanist Manifesto I

Very menacing to me.

How is that menacing to you? What are you envisioning will befall you or the church if all laws were consistent with humanistic principles? You'd lose some tax breaks, but you'd still be free to call yourself a Christian, pray, read your Bible, congregate for fellowship, wear a crucifix, sport Christian bumper stickers, decorate your house for Christmas, etc.. So where is the threat to you?

In the place of the old attitudes involved in worship and prayer the humanist finds his religious emotions expressed in a heightened sense of personal life and in a cooperative effort to promote social well-being.

Replacement theology

Same question - how is that a problem for the believer? Humanism is enabling. That was my point. It attempts to give us all the opportunity to pursue happiness as we understand that as long as we are not impairing the ability of others to do that as well. Humanism is about freedom, which means having options, which means social and economic opportunity including the opportunity to be a devout religious person if that's his version of happiness. I think it's yours. But I also think that many if not most Christians would limit the options of others based in their religious beliefs if they could.

Man will learn to face the crises of life in terms of his knowledge of their naturalness and probability. Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom. We assume that humanism will take the path of social and mental hygiene and discourage sentimental and unreal hopes and wishful thinking.

Educational control - we see that happening.

Once again, how is that a threat to you? You are still free to provide your children and your congregation religious instruction. You are free to put them in Christian schools. Of course, you are NOT free to teach to teach these things to the unwilling and the the uninterested, which is why religious teaching is not permitted in public school curricula.

Freedom From Religion has a political effort to get rid of religion and "just keep it in the four walls of your church"

There is no agenda to eliminate religion, just to keep its influence confined to the lives of believers.

how is this different from "Our goal is a Humanistic nation"?

Terry said, "our goal is a Christian nation. We have the biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." A humanistic nation is tolerant and inclusive. That's how it's different.

How is this different from "Humanism trying to gain exclusive control over the franchise and those who refuse to submit...."?

North said, "The long term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to his Church's public marks of the covenant-baptism and holy communion-must be denied citizenship, just as they were in ancient Israel." Humanism isn't asking you to submit to anything. This guy wants to run your life. That's how it's different. Here's another snippet from North:

• "Why stoning? There are many reasons. First, the implements of execution are available to everyone at virtually no cost...executions are community projects--not with spectators who watch a professional executioner do `his' duty, but rather with actual participants...That modern Christians never consider the possibility of the reintroduction of stoning for capital crimes indicates how thoroughly humanistic concepts of punishment have influenced the thinking of Christian." - Christian Dominionist Gary North bemoaning the influence that humanism has had

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

People have been saying that Christianity is dying since Nietzsche famously claimed, "God is dead."

What will most likely actually happen is numbers in developed countries will continue to go down slightly but numbers in developing areas, like in Africa, will continue to rapidly expand as they continue to modernize with the rest of the world. It is because of this that numbers of both Christianity and Catholicism have gone up in the past several years. But like what @Eddi predicts, I also believe the numbers of developed nations will stabilize, even if the irreligious reaches a point which it may become the majority one day.

 

[Trailblazer]

New Everything dies eventually.

and then something else is reborn.

 

[osgart]

If a person reads the Bible literally word for word then there are very few to no Christians out there anyways.

I've never witnessed the Red Sea split, or talking serpents nor anything like that, and with all the information available today people are becoming smarter. So something as absurdly believed as Christianity is going to naturally die out. All that's needed is for future people to grow up in better environments, with more intellectual resources for Christianity to die out completely.

I grew up with Christianity, and I can attest to the fact that if I had better information, and less pressure to conform to it, I would have ditched it sooner. People have spiritual/emotional needs and often grow up in desperate situations with limited positive experiences and that's why absurd religions grow. People don't have enough opportunity to use their minds more rationally as well.

 

[Trailblazer]

Even if the religion of Christianity dies the words of Jesus will never pass away.

Matthew 24:35 “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”

 

[Dave Watchman]

No.

I say yes.

The state of the earth during the millennium will not allow it.

All of the tribes of the earth would NOT MOURN, if they thought that they would have a second chance during the millennium.

The impact of faith in Jesus will always keep it alive.

But not for everyone.

Jesus also spoke about a "night" that is coming when no man can work.

Christianity really is about the Book they use, it's about that Gospel message that salvation comes through faith in Jesus only. Not from any works, or whatever any specific "church" or religion tells you to do.

Yes I know, the angel in Revelation 14 had the "everlasting Gospel".

"Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”​

But Christianity, the Gospel message, is not everlasting for everyone.

Do you think it will be for these people?

"The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.​

Or these people?

"Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.​

He has also said:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
​

The end of what? The end of the Gospel? The end of Christianity? The end of that hour of judgment? The end of the world?

How do you know that we are not already in that "hour of judgment", and that the hour has just ended?

When the kingdom of the beast is "plunged into darkness", we are in the "night when no man can work". Christianity is over, the Gospel has been preached.

There comes a point when it won't work anymore. Everyone is either marked, or sealed. The lost are then given over to their reprobate minds. They are sent a strong delusion, so that they believe the lie.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No.

I was ready to kill myself after getting PTSD fighting in Afghanistan. Here’s what turned everything around

The impact of faith in Jesus will always keep it alive.

The Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah have also kept Jesus the Christ and the Bible alive, as real today as 2000 years ago.

Regards Tony

 

[Sand Dancer]

People have been saying that Christianity is dying since Nietzsche famously claimed, "God is dead."

What will most likely actually happen is numbers in developed countries will continue to go down slightly but numbers in developing areas, like in Africa, will continue to rapidly expand as they continue to modernize with the rest of the world. It is because of this that numbers of both Christianity and Catholicism have gone up in the past several years. But like what @Eddi predicts, I also believe the numbers of developed nations will stabilize, even if the irreligious reaches a point which it may become the majority one day.

Are they modernizing? Conservative Christianity will hinder any modernization of thought.

 

[Sand Dancer]

and then something else is reborn.

Something better hopefully.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Even if the religion of Christianity dies the words of Jesus will never pass away.

Matthew 24:35 “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”

Hopefully Christianity can then focus on his teachings.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

Are they modernizing? Conservative Christianity will hinder any modernization of thought.

Many parts of Africa still has religious roots in paganism and animism.

Christianity may not be the most modern religion there is, but its aura of modernization far exceeds standard animism, folk religion and ancient paganism.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't think I ever said there aren't other methods. Even therapists can be of help too. God, in our book, is more interested in getting people well than just knowing Him.

Then you accept a more universalist position, that's it's more about the fruits of spirituality that matter, than it is about doctrinal beliefs and religious membership? There are many paths that lead from the foot of the mountain, but at the peak we all gaze at the single bright moon?

But the above doesn't eradicate my position.

But it doesn't necessarily support it either, since it doesn't have to be about Jesus or Christianity. It has more to do with finding faith and spirituality in ones' life. I think the better way to say it is that "spirituality is never going to die", not Christianity never dying. Religions come and go, ebb and flow, but human faith and spirituality remains more or less a constant, struggling to find its way forward.

Yes, if you make Christianity a religion, it will die (probably why so many churches are closing). But, equally, those which are alive in Him and make it a relationship (as with the post) will continue to make it alive and well.

Yes, the "kingdom of God" is a participatory reality. It is created by people who have authentic spiritual desires who create communities. It's an bottom up and inside out affair, far more than any sort of top down, outside in matter.

I balk at these end-times churches who knock on your door about the "coming kingdom", as it things are going to change by out outside force landing on the world. They don't get it that change happens from within. I call that spiritual bypassing. "God will do it", without them needing to do anything. Even this "relationship" language too often means them just having to say certain words and all is "forgiven". Repentance is just a word that means "saying yes", not doing anything practical, like changing who they are.

Don't know what all pulpits are saying. Why is "conservatism" defined as "absent of love and compassion?

I think it's more than abundantly clear how evangelicalism has been co-opted by right wing politics. When you have 88% of white evangelicals supporting Donald Trump as president, it is quite clear the majority of their pulpits has allied itself with a political party and political idealisms.

There have been countless criticisms of this, and it was more than a small reason why I left the ranks of evangelicals myself, when it was embroiling itself more with cultural wars and fighting against liberal and progressive changes in culture. I found it incompatible with the Jesus of the Bible that I was learning about.

Are conservatives capable of love? Of course they are. But are they loving those who are not like themselves, the way Jesus taught? Considering the kinds of attacks and criticisms and condemnations, and fighting the political arena to deprive those unlike themselves to have the sorts of freedoms and liberties that they get to enjoy in this country, to me that shows a lack of love at that level that Jesus taught. He taught a higher form of love, then just "loving those who love you".

That said, I do understand that is a higher bar, that for many is hard to grasp, such as the true meaning of "love your enemies", which is the exact opposite of "culture wars". It would be nice that instead of trying to win that war through politics, they actually spent as much effort in growing spiritually and becoming that love in the world that Jesus set as an example.

I'm a conservative and we are very loving and compassionate.

I'm sure you are. But love has wider and wider circles of who is included in those circles. It begins with immediate family as we are growing up, then widens to include friends, then widens to include community, then may even widen to include other outside our own communities, then may even widen to include others in the whole world globally, then may widen to include all life of all species not our own, then may widen to include the whole of the cosmos with the heart of God.

That's how far Love can go. Not everyone knows the arms of Love like that. The goal is for it to even love your enemies, and not wage a war against them through their cultural differences.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Many parts of Africa still has religious roots in paganism and animism.

Christianity may not be the most modern religion there is, but its aura of modernization far exceeds standard animism, folk religion and ancient paganism.

Culture influences religion. I have read a little on African Christianity. Good and bad.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No.

I was ready to kill myself after getting PTSD fighting in Afghanistan. Here’s what turned everything around

The impact of faith in Jesus will always keep it alive.

Eventually it will join the ranks among the Roman and Greek pantheon of God's and demigods.

It won't die per say but it will eventually become irrelevant and obscure as time goes on.

 

[Kenny]

But don't atheists, agnostics, and people in other faiths have rights as well?

Absolutely. My point was simply that no matter who sponsors the bill, it opposes somebody and everyone wants "their issue" the main issue. Not addressing whether one is right or wrong.