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Why would you want an afterlife?

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
You're trying to impose linear time on a concept that doesn't include it. Infinity of time means that time stands OUTSIDE our very limited understanding of time. We look at time as a linear concept when I believe there's much more to it than that.

That's why, for instance, Jesus' sacrifice on the cross is considered to be timeLESS and ETERNAL and that his one time, and yet eternal sacrifice was for the sins of the world - past, present and future. That's why many Christians believe that they have been saved, they are being saved, and they will be saved - all by that one act, timeless and eternal, of Jesus' sacrifice.

As a Christian, my understanding of eternal life is that it transcends linear time. Past, present, future? All those concepts are just our human grapplings - trying our best to put a definition and understanding on a concept that is simply to vast for us to truly comprehend.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
We can't comprehend infinite.

Says who?

You are also assuming the conscious you presently reside will be the same after you die. I am guessing we will have a very different perspective, so our perception of infinity would most likely be different as well.


On a side, if you are talking about the current concept Christian heaven (clouds, harps and hanging out with your friends/relative for the rest of time) you may want to look a little further into what Christianity promises.

Whatever type of consciousness it is, it's still consciousness. Consciousness = Awareness, Awake, Alive.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
You're trying to impose linear time on a concept that doesn't include it. Infinity of time means that time stands OUTSIDE our very limited understanding of time. We look at time as a linear concept when I believe there's much more to it than that.

That's why, for instance, Jesus' sacrifice on the cross is considered to be timeLESS and ETERNAL and that his one time, and yet eternal sacrifice was for the sins of the world - past, present and future. That's why many Christians believe that they have been saved, they are being saved, and they will be saved - all by that one act, timeless and eternal, of Jesus' sacrifice.

As a Christian, my understanding of eternal life is that it transcends linear time. Past, present, future? All those concepts are just our human grapplings - trying our best to put a definition and understanding on a concept that is simply to vast for us to truly comprehend.

Infinite time is just... (In meaning None) (Finite meaning limit) of time.
 

Greyn

South of Providence
Says who?



Whatever type of consciousness it is, it's still consciousness. Consciousness = Awareness, Awake, Alive.

Our minds are finite. Infinite is by definition without limits hence, outside our ability to truly understand it. We get the definition abstractly, but we can never comprehend the complete reality.

And consciousness does not only equal awareness, awake or alive states. My five month old daughter has consciousness, but it is vastly different then my level of consciousness (in the way you are talking about). This is why I believe the consciousness after death would be very different and why our ability to try to understand an eternal afterlife is very difficult.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Only linear time has a beginning and an end. Eternity is not linear time. We can't grasp it. And that's OK.
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
This thread reminds me of an extract from "God's Demon" by Wayne Barlowe:

And when Adamantinarx had grown for ten thousand years, the two demons had found themselves together, surveying the great city from one of its lofty towers. Eligor, in a moment of sincere enthusiasm, had turned to Sargatanas and said, “This exile, my lord, has not been nearly as grievous as we had, at first, thought. So much has been achieved!”

Sargatanas looked at him and said, “But Eligor, this is only the beginning of the beginning.”
Sargatanas’ voice, all harmonics and rumbles like the woody intake of some giant pipe-organ, had sounded sardonic. He had no reply for his lord. They had spent so much time in hell already. He would always look back at that small conversation as the moment when the enormity of their banishment - of their shared eternity - crystallized.

This I think quite nicely covers the concept of eternity, to look back at 10,000 years past and realise that in effect, not even a fraction of what stretches before you has past.
Now the question as to whether this is a good thing or not depends on what you value. Personally I cherish being able to think, I wouldn't want that to end. I would rather face an eternity trying to find things to occupy myself with than an eternity of being unable to think.
 

sky dancer

Active Member
Eternal life makes zero sense to me. Everything in the universe is impermanent. From the perspective of Buddhism, the ultimate nature of all sentient beings is said to be pure, all-encompassing, primordial awareness or naturally occurring timeless awareness. This "intrinsic awareness" has no form of its own and yet is capable of perceiving, experiencing, reflecting, or expressing all form. It does so without being affected by those forms in any ultimate, permanent way.
 
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Greyn

South of Providence
Eternal life makes zero sense to me. Everything in the universe is impermanent. From the perspective of Buddhism, the ultimate nature of all sentient beings is said to be pure, all-encompassing, primordial awareness or naturally occurring timeless awareness. This "intrinsic awareness" has no form of its own and yet is capable of perceiving, experiencing, reflecting, or expressing all form. It does so without being affected by those forms in any ultimate, permanent way.


So this awareness is eternal?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Our minds are finite. Infinite is by definition without limits hence, outside our ability to truly understand it. We get the definition abstractly, but we can never comprehend the complete reality.

And consciousness does not only equal awareness, awake or alive states. My five month old daughter has consciousness, but it is vastly different then my level of consciousness (in the way you are talking about). This is why I believe the consciousness after death would be very different and why our ability to try to understand an eternal afterlife is very difficult.

Look at the dictionaries: con·scious·ness/ˈkänCHəsnəs/Noun
1. The state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
2. The awareness or perception of something by a person.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We can understand it, though we can't think of how long it is because it's too long.
What she is correctly pointing out is that there's a difference between timelessness and an infinite period of time.

Timelessness is harder to grasp than an infinite period of time. The former may or may not be a meaningful concept, while the latter one is.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
What she is correctly pointing out is that there's a difference between timelessness and an infinite period of time.

Timelessness is harder to grasp than an infinite period of time. The former may or may not be a meaningful concept, while the latter one is.

I'm speaking of eternal life as claimed, I never heard anyone use the word Timelessness when referring to the afterlife.
 

Greyn

South of Providence
Look at the dictionaries: con·scious·ness/ˈkänCHəsnəs/Noun
1. The state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
2. The awareness or perception of something by a person.

Yes, that is right. The awareness or perception of one's surrounding is consciousness. Your awareness and perception (or understanding) of your surroundings change as you change (through education, maturity or possibly even death).
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Claims of a timeless afterlife are most often made by practitioners of a variety of Dharmic religions (not in reincarnation or rebirth but in their ultimate goal), as well as some of the more moderate or liberal members of the Abrahamic faiths that have a grasp on the concept that time is basically a property of this universe, wrapped up in the framework of spacetime.
 

sky dancer

Active Member
Claims of a timeless afterlife are most often made by practitioners of a variety of Dharmic religions, as well as some of the more moderate or liberal members of the Abrahamic faiths that have a grasp on the concept that time is basically a property of this universe, wrapped up in the framework of spacetime.
Buddhism doesn't claim a timeless afterlife.
 
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