1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why Would God Wait?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Lightkeeper, Jan 31, 2005.

  1. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    12,031
    Ratings:
    +1,864
    Exactly! This is where Christianity and the Eastern philosophies meet. If one tries to conform the world to one's own desires, one will always be dissatisfied, because there will always be something that doesn't conform. But if one recognizes this and conforms one's own desires to the world (or the Tao or the Dharma or to God, etc) then one will be content.
     
  2. Mr Spinkles

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,573
    Ratings:
    +2,054
    It's just a seperation of worldviews I suppose, lilithu. Christians, Buddhists, and people such as myself all ask the question: "People are unhappy--how do we fix this?"

    Maybe Buddhists and Christians would respond by saying "those people need to be more loving/less attached to things," but I don't think it's fair to expect people to be happy when they are starving, oppressed, and dying. If oppression and violence make people unhappy, the solution is to do away with oppression and violence--not their desire to be free of it.
     
  3. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,194
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Why thank you Lilithu! I do focus on being the best that I can in helping those around me.
     
  4. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,194
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Your comments make me think that you think I go around and say "Be warm and filled" while gloating over the suffering of others. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

    You know, I volunteered my services but they asked that "non-essential" people stay out of the tsunami area. I have also volunteered my cash, which they happily accepted. I have also organised giving on my Board which has done well. During the hurricanes, I volunteered my time, money and resources helping people to cut down trees, cover houses and tried to comfort those who needed it. Could I have done more? Possibly. But I did what I could and will continue to do this. Not out of some need to "be fulfilled", but out of a sincere desire to help others. Does this fulfuill me? Without question.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    12,031
    Ratings:
    +1,864
    That is why I specifically said "Because they either want things to be different when they can't be or want things to stay the same when they can't".

    Never would I suggest that we just accept injustice and suffering in this world without trying to end it. I mean c'mon, I'm a UU - that would be about as close to blasphemy as I could get! ;)

    The trick is to know the difference between the things that can be different and the things that can't. We cannot prevent that things like tsunamis happen. Sitting there and asking Why?! Why did this happen to me?, altho a very natural and understandable response, only increases/prolongs the suffering (according to Buddhism); it certainly does not decrease/shorten it. We can only accept that they happen and from there look to see what we can do to ease the suffering. We can prevent things like genocide from happening. And in that case, to not do anything is just a hideous, immoral copout.

    Please pardon my introducing a Christian prayer into this, but I personally have always loved Reinhold Niebuhr's words:

    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can (which must be changed), and wisdom to know the difference.

    You can take the God part out and ask this of yourself. Makes no matter to me. ;)
     
  6. Mr Spinkles

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,573
    Ratings:
    +2,054
    Hehe, imagine being excommunicated from UUism...INFIDEL!! :eek::biglaugh:

    I definintely understand what you're saying, lilithu. Here's the thing: let's suppose people are unhappy because something that CAN be changed--like genocide--has happened. In those cases, it is not appropriate to blame the defficiency of goodness, or kindness, or love, or knowledge amongst the victims for their unhappiness; they could be the most kind and loving people in the world, but what has happened to them has made them unhappy, and it is through no fault of their own. I do not agree with NetDoc's assertion that all unhappiness is caused by a defficiency in kindness, etc.

    It's not that I don't respect the idea of people taking responsibility for their own happiness--I do. It's just important to recognize that this idea has taken sinister forms throughout history, and has frequently been used as a tool of oppression (i.e. "you can't change the fact that you're being oppressed, so you should just learn to be happy with it").

    I do, at times.
     
  7. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,194
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    Greed masquerades itself whenever possible. Don't blame that which is good for evil's duplicity.
     
  8. lilithu

    lilithu The Devil's Advocate

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2004
    Messages:
    12,031
    Ratings:
    +1,864
    I really don't think that's what he said. For me personally, there has always been the dilemma of a double standard. I agree with NetDoc's statements if I apply them to me personally. But I wouldn't presume to tell someone else that they need to follow the same path. And then I wonder whether my holding myself up to a "higher" standard means that I think that I am better than others. :confused: Anyway, I thought that NetDoc was talking about himself personally, but I'll leave it up to you guys to duke it out.


    Understood. Religions, most religions, not just Christianity, have veered towards fatalism at times. And established religions tend to favor those in power and try to maintain the status quo. But there have always been other voices within religion, and I have hope that maybe they can grow louder. Dr. King's faith gave him the courage to stand up for change. As did Gandhi's. Christian liberation theology teaches that God is on the side of the poor and oppressed and every good Christian should work against poverty and oppression. And in Buddhism, which has traditionally been disengaged with the world, there is a relatively new strain of socially engaged Buddhism, which believes that Buddhist compassion must be expressed politically.


    Sorry. I wasn't trying to tell you what you should do. (altho I'm sure that you do ask that of yourself) I just meant that one doesn't have to believe in God to find truth in those words.
     
  9. Mr Spinkles

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    Messages:
    11,573
    Ratings:
    +2,054
    Oh no, don't apologize--I was being serious. I've always liked that prayer. :)
     
  10. Peace

    Peace Quran & Sunnah

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,019
    Ratings:
    +582
     
  11. HelpMe

    HelpMe ·´sociopathic meanderer`·

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,313
    Ratings:
    +61
    because another more important life is...more important.


    teachers don't grade/reward your test before you finish it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. SoulTYPE

    SoulTYPE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,252
    Ratings:
    +121
    Actually he has a point there...frubals for the teaching/grading comment.
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,194
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    You know,

    I've had a few teachers who WERE mean old ogres! :D
     
  14. Christopher Krajewski

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    103
    Ratings:
    +6
    God gives me virtues, amongst these patience. Therefore, what would it mean to my freedom to study God judging me, like the government, never solving me a fulltime job?
    I do believe you meant God was not the government.
    So I wait for God, not the government.
    :woohoo:
     
  15. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    11,110
    Ratings:
    +1,669
    If there was a concern that was imperative enough to warrant GOD’s attention, GOD would deal with it immediately. GOD does not wait.
     
Loading...