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Why Would God Wait?

Lightkeeper

Well-Known Member
Why would God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us? Why not do these things while we are alive? Do the concepts of hell and salvation give the church purpose? Does the church have a purpose without these concepts?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
the idea of an afterlife keeps you submissive and behaving in the current life.
You are willing to go through just about anything for the promice of an eternal reward after you die.
Funny how you have to wait to die before you get anything good.

On the flip side you are willing to not just do whatever you want for fear of eternal punnishment.
Funny how 'god' is willing to punnish you eternally for a few ephemeral mistakes in this life.

wa:do
 

No*s

Captain Obvious
Lightkeeper said:
Why would God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us? Why not do these things while we are alive? Do the concepts of hell and salvation give the church purpose? Does the church have a purpose without these concepts?

I don't know. I believe eternal punishment and life begin here, but I don't know why it's set up the way it is.
 

huajiro

Well-Known Member
Have you ever had a friend that you totally trusted from the beginning? You felt really bad when they used you....after that you don't open up completely.....maybe he/she doesn't trust us as much as he/she did, and therefore wants to wait until we have completely proven ourselves.
 

Fluffy

A fool
Why would God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us? Why not do these things while we are alive? Do the concepts of hell and salvation give the church purpose? Does the church have a purpose without these concepts?
I assume by "God" you are referring to the Judeo-Christian god so I will try and answer from a Judeo-Christian perspective. Since God is omniscient then he probably already has judged you before you even came into existence. He just doesn't tell you until after you die. However, if you put it this way then it makes a person feel like all he can do is cross his fingers and hope that you do lead a good life rather than actually going out and leading one.

The purpose of life is not clear and Church is there to help us to lead a good one. Our reward or punishment at the end of life could be completely irrelevant to life's actual purpose. Therefore the Church could be there to help us to lead good lives and therefore is independent of whether there is or isn't an afterlife.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
I remember reading an essay a long long time ago ...and I will never be able to find the article again in cyberspace but it talked about this. It was written by an atheist who called Heaven part of the "carrot and the stick."

In the essay the author pointed out that in the OT God was vengful, jealous, murderous and cruel but in the NT he sends his son to salvage mankind. The carrot and stick analogy says that the structure of Christianity is offering the carrot (JC) in exchange for certain behaviors but wacking with the stick when outside the accepted behavior.

The author speculated that the worshiper was easier to control by the church in older times by having a negative affect for undesired actions as well as a positive. In the analogy if man tried to obtain the carrot by non sanctioned means he was bopped with the stick..non sanction being meathods other than accepting salvation through Christ. Within the framework of the carrot and stick analogy life on earth is like a purgatory hell is the stick and heaven the carrot.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Lightkeeper said:
Why would God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us? Why not do these things while we are alive? Do the concepts of hell and salvation give the church purpose? Does the church have a purpose without these concepts?
For me, G-d does judges us during the Days of Awe to determine how the next year will be for us http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday3.htm
He also judges when you die as well. The point is there is always time to fix things and make right those things that are wrong.
 

huajiro

Well-Known Member
Fluffy said:
I assume by "God" you are referring to the Judeo-Christian god so I will try and answer from a Judeo-Christian perspective. Since God is omniscient then he probably already has judged you before you even came into existence. He just doesn't tell you until after you die. However, if you put it this way then it makes a person feel like all he can do is cross his fingers and hope that you do lead a good life rather than actually going out and leading one.

The purpose of life is not clear and Church is there to help us to lead a good one. Our reward or punishment at the end of life could be completely irrelevant to life's actual purpose. Therefore the Church could be there to help us to lead good lives and therefore is independent of whether there is or isn't an afterlife.
When I refer to God....I don't refer to a specific entity, as I don't know him/her yet....I speak in very general terms.
 

EUCHARIST

New Member
First Christ is Lord of eternal Life. Full right to pass definitive judgment on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He "aquired" this right by the cross. The Father has given "all judgments to the son". Yet the son did not come to Judge, but to save and give the life he has in himself. by rejecting graces in his life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one's works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity y rejecting the Spirit of love

As sacrament, the Catholic Church is Christ's instrument. "She is taken up by hime also as the instrument for the salvation os all," "the Universal sacrament of salvation," by which Christ is "at once manifesting and actualizing the mystery os God's love for men." beacause God desire's "that the wholehuman race may become one People of God, form one body of Christ, and be built up into one temple of the Holy spirit."

Hell is the consquence of the continual rejection of God. the affirmations of Sacred Scrpture and the teaching of the Catholic Church on the subject of hell are a CALL TO THE RESPONSIBILITY incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. they are at the same time an urgent CALL TO CONVERSION: "enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many . For the gateis narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and thosewho find it are few."

so to answer your questions:

1. Well since we dont know the hour od day or nothing when were ganna die its easier for God. Plus u know were here on earth to follow God and know God and strive to be like Christ.... He gives an Opportunity to be judge the right way or the bad way.

2. number 1 answers this to.

3.Yes, the Catholic church purpose is to give a choice (free will) so.... ask your question again....

4.The Catholic church has namy purposes just ask me.....
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Why would God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us?
He doesn't. I have been blessed beyond measure already. Those who choose heaven have some of it right here. Those who choose hell, have it here as well.
 

Fluffy

A fool
He doesn't. I have been blessed beyond measure already. Those who choose heaven have some of it right here. Those who choose hell, have it here as well.
If everything we get in life is a reward or punishment from God then this is an easy way for people to blame loads of injustices on God. Babies, for example, who die a few hours after being born have done nothing wrong yet are punished.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Fluffy... God does not reward with temporal gifts. He gives only gifts of the spirit. One of my FAVORITE passages addresses this.

Epehsians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

The promise isn't for later it's for RIGHT NOW. Right now, I have EVERY SPIRITUAL BLESSING that I could ask for. I lack nothing that I need. RIGHT NOW!

Ever do a home fix it project? You go to the Home Depot and get what you need. You come home start the job and see that you need a doomaflitchie. You go BACK to the Home Depot and get a doomaflitchie, but when you get back home you find you got the wrong size! Back you go ad nauseum, until you finish the project, or have wasted so much time and energy that you can't possibly continue.

Well, think of God as "Heart Depot". He has EVERYTHING your heart could possibly need, and you don't have to go out for it. Do I know how to use everything he has given me??? Well sadly, I am still learning the "tools of the trade". I own enough tools here at the house to build a mansion. Could I build that mansion? Well having the tools means nothing until you practice with them. Maybe one day I will be able to do that. But it's NOT for want of tools.

God has given me more than I need and continues to lavish his spitual "frubals on my head".
 

rivet

Member
Hmmm... maybe God should issue weekly progress reports for everyone. Instead of one final evalutation.
 
NetDoc said:
Right now, I have EVERY SPIRITUAL BLESSING that I could ask for.
What does this mean? Is a 'spiritual blessing' roughly equivalent to happiness/fulfillment?

I think Lightkeeper raises an interesting point. I have heard some argue that this life is a test, and if we pass the test we go to heaven...if we fail, God sends us to hell. However, what use does an omniscient being have for any tests? He presumably already knows how all of His creations will behave.

It seems that either God is not omniscient, or the purpose of this life is not to test our faith (or anything, for that matter).
 

Pah

Uber all member
Lightkeeper said:
Why would God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us? Why not do these things while we are alive? Do the concepts of hell and salvation give the church purpose? Does the church have a purpose without these concepts?
It is the opium for the masses - the delayed gratification
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
What does this mean? Is a 'spiritual blessing' roughly equivalent to happiness/fulfillment?
Here are some GREAT spiritual blessings that God has seen fit to bless me with.


II Peter 1:5. For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Man keeps looking to science to fulfill his inner needs and God hands them to us on a silver platter. No charge. As a society, it seems we are looking for "fulfillment" in all the wrong places.
 

SoulTYPE

Well-Known Member
I don't think God would worry too much about spammers and focus all his godness on those who desereve it :)
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
God knows the number hairs on your head, Soul. He cares for everyone. Not everyone cares for God.
 

fromthe heart

Well-Known Member
Lightkeeper said:
Why would God wait until after death to judge, punish or reward us? Why not do these things while we are alive? Do the concepts of hell and salvation give the church purpose? Does the church have a purpose without these concepts?
I don't feel God does wait on all things for punishment. I think we do get punishment and rewards here in our lifetime. We all have consequences of our actions whether positive or negative and I do feel some of this comes from the hand of God. If you take a situation and think of what you may have done differently to change the outcome you can sometimes see God's hand in it.

Yes the church does have a purpose even though there is current day punishment. The church should guide to good lifestyles and behaviors, teach, give support in hard times and encourage you to keep forward thoughts and to love one another. I'm no authority on these things but this is how I feel. I know there have been times when I've been in a hurry and God has slowed me down by some slow-poke to keep me from being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I don't always understand but when I start feeling irritated I consider the possibilities and settle myself down...I've been blessed in doing this. I feel all of what I do is directed in my life striaght from the hand of God. It's not always good either cuz I'm not always good...I sin a lot in my eyes so I'm sure there are things even my human eyes miss that are not pleasing to the Lord.

The 'Judgment Day' I feel is like a day of reccogning...we will stand before God and at times He may say well done and then others He will say I'm SO disappointed that you did this or that. But I also feel that those who blatently ignore His exsistence will have a lot more to fear on judgment day than I will...but you still won't find me standing in judgment of even my closest friends. We all must chose for ourselves the way in life and the time of that way. For those who don't believe,Please don't attack my faith...just go your own way and together we will walk in this life side by side because I still consider all those as well as my brothers and sisters.:)
 
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