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Featured why would God reveal himself in texts?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by cambridge79, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    So you're saying that Moses smashed the tablets engraved by God's own hand over the actions of 0.1% of the people assembled?
     
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  2. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Some. Not many, but some. Why does this matter?

    Edit: most living descendants of the ancient Jews don't worship the Jewish god.
     
  3. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    We have one narrative because everyone agreed upon what they had experienced.
     
  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    So the "two-three million people" all read the account and signed off on it? ;)
     
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  5. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    How do you determine that everyone agreed with that narrative ?
     
  6. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I loves me some Cecil B. DeMille. However, in that movie, the earth swallows up the bad guys. This is from the bible:
    So, Team Moses committed great bloodshed for all the pro-cow folks, like I said.

    And why does it sound like the story of King Josiah is telling us that everything other than a law book was made up? It was a law book the priests supposedly discovered in a wall, so where did the other books come from?
     
  7. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Don't you mean the king had the text redacted to meet his personal theistic agenda, based on a compilation of previous traditions most know as pseudohistory we know never took place?
     
  8. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

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    Peace be on you.
    == Here is list of Books of various religions [to see how they began]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_text#Sacred_texts_of_various_religions


    == For Holy Quran, it was revealed in about 23 years, right from start the revelation was preserved by two methods:
    ""The Quran was revealed by God to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) over a period of about 23 years. The revelations were conveyed to the Prophet in small segment by the angel Gabriel who made the Prophet recite the revealed verses in his presence.

    From the very outset, the Prophet employed two independent but mutually complementary methods for preserving the revelations. The two methods used for this purpose were memorisation and inscription. Besides ensuring independently the transmission of the revelation, the two methods also served as internal checks, thus ensuring its accurate preservation.""
    https://www.alislam.org/library/links/00000054.html
     
  9. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    Because we don't have multiple versions of the Hebrew bible.
     
  10. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    You seriously think that the entire population of Jews had just one single copy of the bible. Most Jews didn't even live close to Jerusalem. How could they all be reading daily Torah portions if they had to travel over a day to get to that one single book? Plus wouldn't it be a bit crowded, having thousands of Jews huddled around trying to read that one single book? I mean, just use a little logic here.
     
  11. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    The books evolved yes. But these writings were sacred to these people. And King Josiah probably did have his monotheistic reforms.

    And we know the text took on major redactions during this period.


    So Kelley is actually making great points.
     
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  12. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    That is not substantiated.
     
  13. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I missed where there were ancient Jewish publishing houses. They didn't find that scroll/law book in some random dude's bedroom wall ... it was a priest's, IIRC. We are so used to ubiquitous literary presence that we forget it took years to make even a single book.
    History of Printing
    History of Scribes
    Early writing
    Before the printing press
    Not only were books rare because of the time it took to make them, but not only the audience but many copiers were illiterate. Do you know the frustration of helping non-English speakers with corporate documentation, only to be told "what is 'a'"? Spanish uses the same alphabet English does, with some extra squiggly symbols as well. I had to help people who didn't know their own frickin' alphabet. You want me to believe that ancient people were highly literate with mass produced literature? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ten bucks says that the reason people kept worshipping other gods in the bible is that they never read the texts the priests made up in the first place.

    edit:
    I can see how this conversation went:
    People: Yay, other gods!
    Priest: No! You cannot have another god!
    People: Uh ... we've been having this setup since before your granddaddy was born. What changed?
    Priest: I have a sacred book.
    People: Can we see it?
    Priest: No, I'll just tell you what it says.
    People *snatches scroll*: This is a bunch of squiggles.
    Priest: IT IS A SACRED TEXT ... WORDS STRAIGHT FROM GOD'S MOUTH!
    People: God doesn't need texts to talk to us. That's what "prayer" is for, as well as ritual and dreams an' stuff.
    Priest: This is sacred!
    People: We think the priests need to justify their paycheck again. Hence "texts" were invented to prove to us that squiggles equal divine mandate.
    Priest: Kill them all!
    People: Holy crap!
     
    #113 Kelly of the Phoenix, Jan 24, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  14. Penumbra

    Penumbra Veteran Member
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    If there are any deities interested in communicating with humans without any layers of confusion and to reach the largest possible audience, there are much better methods than what has been done previously.

    As it stands now, some people claim divine revelation, then then those claimed revelations get passed down orally and then into texts. And now we have a bunch of texts, many of which contradict each other, or are demonstrably incorrect in some areas, or that in some cases advocate for types of genocide and things of that nature.
     
  15. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    So true.

    It also goes way beyond just that. We see the text in full as evolving human nature and only human nature in the text.

    Nothing in any text shows any sign of higher power or intellect then humans.

    It was written by humans, for humans, in human language and understanding, most of the time in rhetorical prose and obvious mythology, we can usually trace back to previous human traditions.


    The beauty in these text and the epic nature that has made them stand the test of time, is because of its 100% human origin. People miss so much without a real education this passes over the top of most peoples heads. :(
     
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  16. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    Do you mean the fact that Exodus is part of the Hebrew bible entails that everyone alive back then accepted the narrative ? What if the narrative was written many years after the events had transpired ?
     
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    We don't have multiple versions of the Guru Granth Sahib. Does this mean you accept Sikhism as true?
     
  18. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    What about it?
     
  19. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    I think he means the mythology is not historical.
     
  20. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

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    Then it could have been easily fabricated. There was no living witness to say it didn't happen so.
     
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