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Featured Why Would Christians Worship a God Who Clearly Wouldn't Lift A Finger For Them?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, Jan 6, 2021.

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  1. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Active Member

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    I go onto a BBS and read stories from COVID long haulers--those who have had COVID and are testing negative but carry a variety of lingering symptoms like fatigue, shortness of breath, difficulty breathing, body aches, joint pain--a whole cornucopia of symptoms ranging from mild to unbearable. The majority of them are posting prayer requests for family members or themselves and members respond with praying icons accompanied by "Praying". Most are still suffering these horrible residual problems 6 to 9 months after acquiring the infection.

    What bewilders me to no end is why people pray to God when He clearly is not going to answer their prayers. I mean WHY????? Statistically some recover at about the same rate as people of other religions and atheists so it's not like God is rushing to help Christians. I pointed out elsewhere that statistically if 70% of Americans identify as Christian and 350,000 people have already died from COVID that means that 245,000 Christians had family members, friends and church members praying for them and yet these people died anyway, and not comfortably but in the most terrible manner imaginable--for days to weeks feeling like they were breathing through a straw according to many, and an unrelenting feeling like they were suffocating every minute of the day along with all the pain.

    "These are God's children," I thought, and God doesn't lift a finger to help them even though Jesus promised, "If you ask the Father for anything in my name He will grant it." I mean He doesn't even let them die comfortably. He has to put them through the worst torture imaginable. If He had any mercy at least He'd let them die quickly and painlessly.

    It doesn't stop with COVID. Think of the millions of Christian children dying of cancer who had good Christian parents and their families praying for them and they died slow agonizing deaths anyway. What about the millions of homeless, jobless, unemployed and sick who pray night and day and never receive what they need? Oh I know a few have some stories about how God helped them but statistically it's no different than the rate other non-Christians get out of trouble.

    The adage "Nothing fails like prayer" is so true. I prayed when I was a Christian. I never had prayers answered. It's so obvious God doesn't answer prayer and yet people still pray. Christians please explain why--outside of praying you find your lost car keys--you pray when you must know deep down the more difficult the request the less likely your problems are going to be resolved by God.
     
    #1 SeekingAllTruth, Jan 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
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  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    You tell me and then we will both know. ;) I am a believer and I stopped praying for anything long ago. If I pray, it is just generic, like crying out -- help me Jesus, help me God! I never ask for anything in particular because I figure God knows what is best for me so that is what will happen.

    Well, that is not exactly true that I never pray for anything. If I cannot find a cat or if I know it got outside, I pray like there is no tomorrow, and it just so happens that cat often turns up almost magically in the strangest of places.
    Obviously, Jesus did not mean that literally. Jesus said a lot of things that were figurative.
    I am not a Christian and I never was a Christian, but I think they pray just because that is what you're supposed to do whenever you have troubles, not because they believe they will get an answer, but I really should allow the Christians to speak for themselves and I'd like to hear the answers.
     
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  3. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    The Bible does say Jesus prayed: Matt 26:39


    And He went a little farther, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as Thou wilt.”

    As a non-Christian, I would think this is a model for how to pray
     
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  4. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    A question that arise after reading your OP is, Even 70% of americans say they are Christian, do they actually practice the teaching ? If they do not practice every day, why would God see them as his children?

    Then one can look at the past of the people who suffer, have they tried becomming a better person? Or do they continue their sin? If they keep doing the same over and over again, how would they not suffer? Only by becomming better, and stop doing wrong, according to the bible will they end their suffering, or is it not so?
     
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  5. alypius

    alypius Member

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    Could a God who answers 'No' or 'Wait' still be Creator-Father?
     
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  6. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    Hail, holy queen, Mother of Mercy. Hail our life our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then most gracious advocate thine eyes of mercy towards us and after this our exile show onto us the blessed fruit of thy womb Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary. Pray for us O holy Mother of God so that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ. Amen.

    Above is one of my favorite prayers in the whole Christian tradition. The Salve Regina. It beautifully sums up the human condition as one of exile in a vale of tears. No where in the Gospels are we promised exemption from the tribulations of this life. In fact the early Christian experience was one of persecution and martyrdom. And it remains so in many parts of the world today. No, the promise of the Gospels is not that God is going to miraculously intervene to spare us from the inevitable suffering that comes with life in the mortal plane, but that despite our exile we can gain a saving relationship with God though the redemptive action of Christ.

    Christianity properly understood does not shy away from the frank acknowledgment that there is suffering in the world. It is not a promise of happiness in this life. It is a claim that if we but put our full trust in God (no matter how difficult that may be) then our lives will be instruments of greater purpose. Purpose that will not be fully grasped until we see it on the other side of eternity. God is the one in control, not us. Our job here on Earth is to respond to the promptings of grace. And there is always grace even in the darkest of places.
     
    #6 Musing Bassist, Jan 7, 2021
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  7. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

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    God always answers prayer, often the answer to our misguided, selfish desires is NO! Mankind is supposed to be working out the solutions to our problems on this planet not petitioning God like Santa Clause.
     
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  8. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Prayer only makes a person feel better. Nothing else comes of it. For some, it might be enough.
     
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  9. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    My prayers have manifested them self at more then one time. So for me it is not just wishful thinking
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't believe that's how prayers work. Think about if you lost a loved one and you place flowers on their grave. Maybe you sit down in your grief and talk to your loved as "if" she or he was still here. You "know" that you won't see firecrackers and spoons floating. No one walks on water and no one is raised from the dead. Yet, you are comforted to let the soul of your loved one to know you are still thinking of them. Maybe you want to wish they are doing well or even, like they did living, watch over you.

    These gestures of thanks and communication are prayer. You say your goodbyes for now and your day feels lighter. Was it god? Your deceased loved one? Doesn't matter. Who or what you attribute the prayer is irrelevant in itself. Buddhist pray. So do pagans. And so forth.

    Maybe instead of praying that children are cured (that's like asking to walk on water) keep them in mind and ask that they experience healing and strength. You don't have to be religious to pray (keep one in mind, communicate, and be grateful.)

    Answered prayers are spoken through signs such as syncronicites that are meaningful to the person praying. It's not a magic wand and in my opinion god, from what I gather, is not a magician.

    Change your perspective.
     
    #10 Unveiled Artist, Jan 7, 2021
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  11. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Properly understood, which is key. And yes, all is grace.
     
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  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    You're absolutely right. It was terribly misguided and selfish of my daughter to pray to God to live.
     
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  13. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Its all been rationalized. See "battered wife syndrome ".
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Ever wonder why God only does medical miracles as long as they are possible without a miracle?
     
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  15. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Think of it as something like the sorting hat from the Harry Potter series.

    It is significant, not an oversight. and the answer is not clearly spelled out. Actually there are several approaches to answering. You can rethink God. You can rethink prayer. You can rethink your religion, your culture. In ancient times the answer to your question is left as a mystery for you to solve, because you will come up with your own answer. How you answer says something about you, because the answers are individual.

    In the gospels Jesus upon the cross shouts "Why have you abandoned me?" to God. This refusal to answer prayer is part of his story, borrowing from the Jewish story. The Jewish story has people asking the same thing in their own way, many times. In that story the Israelites are enslaved for four centuries with no reply to their complaints. They pray and nobody helps them. Then suddenly four centuries later they are brought out of Egypt. Why?
     
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  16. capumetu

    capumetu Active Member

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    Most all of us Christians feel that many of our prayers have been answered. Jehovah will not butt into our affairs for the most part, as we requested to be our own gods. When man comes very close to extincting himself Mat 24:22, then He will send His forces to fulfill Rev 21:3,4
     
  17. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

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    Why do you think her prayer wasn't answered?
     
  18. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    The fact that she’s dead.
     
  19. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    I accept God as God is, so i dont ask why or how God do as God do
     
  20. cOLTER

    cOLTER Active Member

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    What if she awakes on the next world and realizes the answer to her prayer was that everyone on this world dies? That this world cant be our permanent home, that we were never supposed to live on indefinitely on this world because there is much more after this first stop?
     
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