Why would a just and loving God allow a serial killer to claim thirty victims?

[idea]

Assuming we're talking about the biblical god, this doesn't jive with his omniscience. A god who has all those omnis is an oxymoron; they contradict each other given the actual state of society. Both Old and New Testaments claim that god judges not only deeds, but also thoughts and intentions of the heart:

"As a man thinks in his heart, so is he" Proverbs 23:7

"Everyone who looks on a woman with lust in his heart has committed adultery with her in his heart already" Matthew 5:28

So if thoughts are equal to actions in the eyes of god, there is no need to permit a serial killer to even begin a spree; not if you're really all loving, all powerful, AND all knowing. No excuse for that, either; I doubt that even the nihilists among us would ignore someone actually being murdered in front of them.

I agree that death is not evil; it's simply a transition in my view. It's biblical to call it 'the last enemy', however, so it's decidedly odd of this god to fail so abysmally at saving anyone from it. In the case of murder, it's not a question of whether or not death is evil, it's a question of whether or not MURDER is evil; and I seriously doubt anyone would suggest murder is not wrong. At the very least, it is a willful infringement on the freedom of another person.

"has committed adultery with her in his heart" is different than "has actually committed adultery". It is true that "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he" - that it is just a matter of time before thoughts turn into action, but action is required for a more severe punishment to be just. It is a different caliper sin to think something, than to actually do something. Some sins are more horrible than others... Some sacrifices are also more honorable than others too.

Death is evil - it causes pain and hurt, have you never lost someone you loved? Life comes from God, and death comes from sin. The entire point of the atonement is to overcome death and sin.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Why always look at the apparent evil without paying attention to the deeper meaning and it's wisdom. Maybe that's the wrong thing to say since you aren't a Muslim and don't view things the same way as I do, but what better thing than to have someone kill thirty people, who may end up being rewarded with Paradise as compensation and then the person who is responsible for that repents to God over the years because of what he did and becomes such a good person that then God rewards him with Paradise too.

So you have 31 people all admitted to paradise over something which outwardly seemed like a heinous crime at the time but served as salvation for all.

I suppose I don't see any deeper meaning or wisdom in this scenario when the serial killer never repents. If I had thirty children and one of them started killing off his siblings, as a loving and caring father, I could either stop him from killing any more or I could allow him to continue murdering my other children in hopes that this one child may someday redeem himself. As a TRULY loving father, I would NEVER choose the latter course of action.

As for this idea that getting to go to 'paradise' is worthy compensation for having your life violently cut short, I find that a VERY dangerous way of thinking. FAR too many have justified killing others by reasoning that by ending their lives they're simply being sent off to a better place. It cheapens this glorious life we've been given to flagrantly dismiss its loss or to try and justify it as actually being part of God's plan. Any God worth worshipping want's EVERYONE to live a full and productive life. He doesn't blithely allow one of his children's lives to be snuffed out just to try and teach a lesson to another of his children.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Life is a test. If someone is evil - if they kill and harm people, they will end up in outer darkness after this life - a place where they are isolated from others etc. If they were never allowed to actually kill / harm others, then it would not be just to actually punish them by isolating them...

"I might have thought that, but I would have never done that..." sort of a thing. They have to be allowed to actually harm others, or they cannot be justly separated from others in the afterlife.

Okay, I get what you're trying to say. What my question is, why, after this serial killer has killed 15 victims, which should be PLENTY enough to justify punishing him with isolation, is he THEN allowed to kill an additional 15 innocent people? Even as fallible human beings we recognize that after someone kills a single person that it's sufficient reason to punish them for it. We don't allow them to stay free to see if maybe they'll add another few to the total so that we can devise an even worse punishment for them. Why would God do otherwise?

 

[QuestioningMind]

It is the price we pay for having a choice. It is either this or we have no choice and go on as puppets. This life is not perfect, I'm afraid. It bothers me too, but I chose to live with it, try my best in doing the right choice and not worry/complain about it much.

So it's your contention that by giving us free will, God is not able to influence or interfere with anything we do here on Earth?

 

[QuestioningMind]

I don't think any faith has ever used such an example to justify massacres, that people have a better chance to end up in Paradise as a result. Please cite your evidence if you believe otherwise as I've never come across it.

I suggest you do some research on the Spanish Inquisition. Hundreds if not thousands were tortured to death in the belief that by getting them to renounced their pagan beliefs and accept Jesus Christ as their saviour before they died that they were being SAVED from eternal damnation.

 

[Smart_Guy]

So it's your contention that by giving us free will, God is not able to influence or interfere with anything we do here on Earth?

Not sure. I only believe that we have a choice. Having a choice does not mean we can achieve what we want for certain, which means it does not mean God can't influence or interfere with anything we do here on Earth.

Other wise we can reach a level we can always get anything we want, or so I believe.

 

[idea]

Okay, I get what you're trying to say. What my question is, why, after this serial killer has killed 15 victims, which should be PLENTY enough to justify punishing him with isolation, is he THEN allowed to kill an additional 15 innocent people? Even as fallible human beings we recognize that after someone kills a single person that it's sufficient reason to punish them for it. We don't allow them to stay free to see if maybe they'll add another few to the total so that we can devise an even worse punishment for them. Why would God do otherwise?

I don't think that every evil act can be explained in any single generalization. For all of the people involved - both the evil and the good, there are lessons learned, struggles overcome, highs and lows... the highs and lows in life are what define us, what bring out our character, the things that show how strong we are - if it is being willing to die for our beliefs, or it is being willing to kill - both sides of it bring us to our limits and reveal our true natures.

 

[rrosskopf]

A person's true beliefs aren't the philosophical conclusions that they've come to during times of relaxed contemplation.

I'd be a little more cautious in pronouncing which beliefs are one's true beliefs. Our beliefs are not a few, and sometimes one can get tangled up in them, or confused. I'd bet that most decisions are born out of uncertainty. The best that we can hope for is that we learn from our mistakes.

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

I don't think any faith has ever used such an example to justify massacres, that people have a better chance to end up in Paradise as a result. Please cite your evidence if you believe otherwise as I've never come across it.

"Kill them. For the Lord knows those that are His own."

 

[SuzyL]

I’ve never understood why a just and loving God would ever allow a serial killer to murder thirty innocent victims. I’ve heard the argument that it’s all because God gave his creation’s free will; that we are not robots programmed to do only as God desires, but have been given the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. That’s all well and good. I can understand a God that allows his creations to make their own path in life and generously gives them the opportunity to repent for the atrocities they may commit.


However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. Clearly exercising this control over how long you remain within the Earthly realm does not violate a person’s free will; otherwise no one would die unless that was what they freely willed to have happen. So why would God wait until this serial killer has murdered thirty innocent victims before giving him a fatal heart attack at the age of sixty-seven? After the third or maybe even fourth victim, hasn’t this killer pretty much demonstrated an unwillingness to repent? Why didn’t God give him a heart attack after victim number four? Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

I will answer your question as my religion teaches it: The reason a just and loving God allows terrible things to happen is because we are in freedom to do evil. We are created with free will because the alternative would be that God created the human race to be puppets. What good would that be? But possibly more importantly, The Lord God Jesus Christ is mostly interested in eternal lives. He ALWAYS allows good to come out of evil...if we let him. I don't pretend to completely understand what determines our time of death...but then I don't actually believe death is a real thing at all. Our life in the spiritual world commences immediately (3 days some would say) later. The deceased is just fine and well taken care of. (Those left behind are the ones suffering.) But if we turn to the Lord in our grief, he will ill lift up his countenance upon us and give us peace.

 

[Christ's Prophet]

I’ve never understood why a just and loving God would ever allow a serial killer to murder thirty innocent victims. I’ve heard the argument that it’s all because God gave his creation’s free will; that we are not robots programmed to do only as God desires, but have been given the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. That’s all well and good. I can understand a God that allows his creations to make their own path in life and generously gives them the opportunity to repent for the atrocities they may commit.


However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. Clearly exercising this control over how long you remain within the Earthly realm does not violate a person’s free will; otherwise no one would die unless that was what they freely willed to have happen. So why would God wait until this serial killer has murdered thirty innocent victims before giving him a fatal heart attack at the age of sixty-seven? After the third or maybe even fourth victim, hasn’t this killer pretty much demonstrated an unwillingness to repent? Why didn’t God give him a heart attack after victim number four? Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

Dear QuestingMind
This question and others like it are frequently asked by those people who are perplexed. But I think you are asking the wrong question. We have to take a step back to observe the overall situation. The real question which should be asked is ‘why does God not allow more evil in the world?’ If you read the Bible it says, for instance.
Romans 3:10-18 (KJV)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Does this not describe the sinful and fallen world in which you and I live? Mankind readily receives the gifts of God, but no one gives God the credit or gives Him the praise or thanks. God must look down on this sinful and selfish world and must weep for His creations. God is patient and longsuffering towards us humans. God longs to have meaningful relationships with people, but most people have turned their backs on Him. We must make good use of the time God has given us because it will not always be so. We don’t know when that last moment will be, so we have to make the most of it to the glory of God. There may be a thousand ways to die in this Spiritually corrupt world, but the day is urgent, today is the Day of Salvation.
Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity

 

[jeager106]

I’ve never understood why a just and loving God would ever allow a serial killer to murder thirty innocent victims. I’ve heard the argument that it’s all because God gave his creation’s free will; that we are not robots programmed to do only as God desires, but have been given the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. That’s all well and good. I can understand a God that allows his creations to make their own path in life and generously gives them the opportunity to repent for the atrocities they may commit.


However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. Clearly exercising this control over how long you remain within the Earthly realm does not violate a person’s free will; otherwise no one would die unless that was what they freely willed to have happen. So why would God wait until this serial killer has murdered thirty innocent victims before giving him a fatal heart attack at the age of sixty-seven? After the third or maybe even fourth victim, hasn’t this killer pretty much demonstrated an unwillingness to repent? Why didn’t God give him a heart attack after victim number four? Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

I'm sorry you don't understand the God of Christendom.
If you were a Bible student you'd know why.
No offense meant.
Simply put "God" is not in control of this world now, Satan is.
All this world is under Satan and man kinds miserable control.
God and Jesus day are coming soon.
What "soon" exactly means is unknown to me.
Why do you think the Bible admonishes "have no part of this world"?
Because it's under control of Satan and man's governments.

 

[ebgebg]

I’ve never understood why a just and loving God would ever allow a serial killer to murder thirty innocent victims. I’ve heard the argument that it’s all because God gave his creation’s free will; that we are not robots programmed to do only as God desires, but have been given the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. That’s all well and good. I can understand a God that allows his creations to make their own path in life and generously gives them the opportunity to repent for the atrocities they may commit.


However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. Clearly exercising this control over how long you remain within the Earthly realm does not violate a person’s free will; otherwise no one would die unless that was what they freely willed to have happen. So why would God wait until this serial killer has murdered thirty innocent victims before giving him a fatal heart attack at the age of sixty-seven? After the third or maybe even fourth victim, hasn’t this killer pretty much demonstrated an unwillingness to repent? Why didn’t God give him a heart attack after victim number four? Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

It's the same question rephrased "how can a good God exist,if he allows evil to exit?" Basically, man's concept of perfection is where
he lives in Utopia, and god his is servant. God is not the butler. Only a perfect God would allow the imperfect man to exit in the
first place...and that imperfect existence comes with the price of danger and death. Yes, airliners go down with innocent people on board,
but that is the risk the passenger's knew before they boarded the airplane. Is God obligated to suspended the laws of Physics
(lift VS gravity, thrust VS drag) to save those people from man's faulty equipment? Japan's tsunami...many people knew the danger
of living on the coast, but choose to live their because of the potential for economic gain. Is god's to be blamed for the tsunami
because people wanted money more then safety? Where does man's responsibility begins in a relationship with God?
Yes, put bullets into a gun, and people die...do you want god to suspend the laws of physic about expanding gases in the gun?
Where is man's responsibility in this gun culture...God is not a vending machine for man's want's and desires.

 

[Koldo]

Is God obligated to suspended the laws of Physics
(lift VS gravity, thrust VS drag) to save those people from man's faulty equipment?

Only if he cares.

 

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

I’ve never understood why a just and loving God would ever allow a serial killer to murder thirty innocent victims. I’ve heard the argument that it’s all because God gave his creation’s free will; that we are not robots programmed to do only as God desires, but have been given the freedom to choose to do good or to do evil. That’s all well and good. I can understand a God that allows his creations to make their own path in life and generously gives them the opportunity to repent for the atrocities they may commit.


However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. Clearly exercising this control over how long you remain within the Earthly realm does not violate a person’s free will; otherwise no one would die unless that was what they freely willed to have happen. So why would God wait until this serial killer has murdered thirty innocent victims before giving him a fatal heart attack at the age of sixty-seven? After the third or maybe even fourth victim, hasn’t this killer pretty much demonstrated an unwillingness to repent? Why didn’t God give him a heart attack after victim number four? Why would God allow this person to claim another twenty-six victims prior to ending his life?

Hi, this is I reconcile it. God, has a law for everything, even for himself, that he never breaks. When he gave us free will with which we choose where our lives go. He does'nt intervene with our choice , but He influences them. He does intervene in other ways. It's the sins of others that cause the bad things in the world to happen. God does have a purpose and a plan for everyone of us that is for the Greater Good, because He knows how we can happy. Our bad choices get us off His path. But we will never understand all the "why's" or His Will. But "His Will will be done on earth as it is in Heaven" The Lord's Prayer". Finally, God did not say life would be easy, He He did say He would see us through it, because nothing is too great for God. There are worse things than physical death. The is how interpret it, but I think some things are just way beyond what we conceive. And we have no control over anything but how we feel, think, act, speak. That's it.

Besides, I'm glad God is in control, because us humans tend to mess everything up. If you don't repent you cannot be forgiven.

 

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

QuestioningMind,Wrote: ". . .However, this is the same God that has control over when you die. . . "

Clearly, whatever preachers you may have met have failed to tell you that the God who created our world is not currently the god who manages world affairs. Consider the exchange between Jesus and Satan recorded by Matthew in ch 4, vs 8-10: Satan offered Jesus control over all the world's kingdoms. He could not have done so if he did not have it. Indeed, he refers to Satan as "the ruler of this world" in John 14:30.

However, Satan's lease is about to expire.

Nicely said! Satan does the world. God is not of the world, He is of the Spirit. And the world has nothing to offer us.

 

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

Only if he cares.

God isn't obligated to do anything. I believe

Only if he cares.

Faulty equipment, that's hilarious. I hope you were being funny and sarcastic.
I think He can save from faulty anything. More inportantly he saves us from our wretched selves, from our bondage in sin, and from eternal damnation. Jesus saves. He has saved me so many times In so may ways can't even count them.

 

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

Only if he cares.

He could if He wanted to. But He isn't obligated to anyone or anything.

 

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.

Amen! The Truth, God's Truth is your best friend!

 

[JesusFreaKMyHero1]

Pardon my ignorance, but that passage makes absolutely so sense to me. Is it saying that one should not take steps to save the lives of suffering people, because when those people die God with receive them upon himself, in glory? I'm confused.

There is a time to help and a time not too help.