Why Won't You be Voting for Mr. Trump this Fall?

[Mindmaster]

Can you please tell me what you consider to be far-left and far-right policy? I can't see how Trump would be considered being anywhere close to moderate.

Far-left: Cultural Marxism, Intersectionality, Areligious Zealotry, Cancel Culture, Defund Police, Work For China, etc.

Far-right: Blood and Soil, White Supremacy, Religious Zealotry, Anti-Science, Military Sychophants, Excessive Nationalism, etc.

I don't particularly think for example believe socialism or capitalism as concepts are especially either, as most people are rather moderate are hybridizing those positions. Trump is mostly-moderate, but as no one is perfectly moderate he has a bit of leans when they are convenient.

It's important, however, to realize the extremists are a minority of EITHER party. None of the people running for office in either party are particularly that far one way or another. Most of the higher-ups just lean right or left.

 

[Mindmaster]

Of course he is. How many examples do you want?

Hit me, I need a laugh for the day. Seriously, this is nonsense. His political views have literally not changed since the 80s. At that time, he was donating to Democrats. The Democrats loved him then, but now switches parties... Ohh, he's a racist and a fascist. It's completely absurd.

 

[Windwalker]

If you will be voting this fall in the election for president, but will not be voting for Mr. Trump, why won't you be voting for him?

Because he seeks to destroy America and make it his to rule, free from fair elections, and any accountability to law or the constitution. The past three years have proven this.

I want America to be great again, which means getting rid of him.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That's a lie. Lay off the conspiracy theory nonsense please.

It's the bottom line plaint of the bottom dwellers of the basket of deplorables.

 

[Mindmaster]

That's a lie. Lay off the conspiracy theory nonsense please.

Really? I'm sorry you feel that way. But, keep following them right off the cliff. People have been fired from academia to politically cleanse the universities and you're telling me it's not one-sided and that one shouldn't be suspect? Believe what you want, but I think politics and science should be kept as far apart as possible. That's not being done, so that's my criticism. Take it how you want... I'm _immobile_ on that view.

 

[Left Coast]

If you will be voting this fall in the election for president, but will not be voting for Mr. Trump, why won't you be voting for him?

Because he's an incompetent neo-fascist.

By the way, this video is so far the best brief public discussion of the coming election that I have seen. What do you think of it?

Sorry Phil, I can't say I agree. For starters, the fact that we're still giving Bill Kristol a public platform as some sort of "reasonable" conservative alternative to Trump is disturbing. There was no discussion of the fact that places like Georgia don't have "free and fair elections" because of Republican policies like voter ID laws, limiting the number of polling places in minority/Dem neighborhoods, not to mention their ongoing defense of our absurd electoral college system. He gets to sit there and champion the conservative label while taking zero responsibility for the fact that his ideology has created this mess, including the election of Donald Trump.

James Carville's prediction that Trump is going to drop out I find very implausible. I find it even more implausible that some significant raft of GOP senators is suddenly going to turn on him come Labor Day. The truth is, GOP senators, like most GOPers, would prefer if Trump sent fewer embarrassing tweets, but other than that he largely champions their platform. They have no political incentive to turn against him. The only way that realistically happens is if he has some incredibly dramatic decline in physical or mental health such that he literally can't campaign anymore.

 

[Valjean]

Why Won't You be Voting for Mr. Trump this Fall?
Because he's an incompetent neo-facsict?
But there are other possible scenarios that might keep Trump in office:

Certain radical Republicans take advantage of the Covid disorder to remove polling stations or purge voter rolls of potential liberals while blocking alternative voting methods?
Trump declares a state of emergency and suspends the election?
The republicans engineer some sort of Putinesque legislation that would keep Trump in office?

 

[Koldo]

Far-left: Cultural Marxism, Intersectionality, Areligious Zealotry, Cancel Culture, Defund Police, Work For China, etc.

Far-right: Blood and Soil, White Supremacy, Religious Zealotry, Anti-Science, Military Sychophants, Excessive Nationalism, etc.

I don't particularly think for example believe socialism or capitalism as concepts are especially either, as most people are rather moderate are hybridizing those positions. Trump is mostly-moderate, but as no one is perfectly moderate he has a bit of leans when they are convenient.

It's important, however, to realize the extremists are a minority of EITHER party. None of the people running for office in either party are particularly that far one way or another. Most of the higher-ups just lean right or left.

We agree on many things and I still don't understand why you see him as mostly moderate.

Let me go over a small list of right-wing positions:

1) Opposition to abortion. Check.
2) Tax cuts to the riches. Check.
3) Opposition to universal health care or anything similar. Check.
4) Stricter border control. Check.
5) Opposition to same-sex marriages. Check.

And I can keep going on...
How is he not clearly a right-wing politician?

 

[Revoltingest]

Why not vote for Trump this Nov?
He has a record in public office now.
It can be compared with Biden's.
Each is better on some issues, & worse on others.
The net effect, ie, good vs bad in a range of matters,
looks murky. Predicting likely effects in office, I don't
see a clear preference, so it's 3rd party time for me.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

I will probably not vote for Trump, only if the election is barred due to "risk of Coronavirus." Proving what this virus is really all about. Electoral rigging.

He publicly lies too much. Thereby making "America bad again" NOT making "America great again", setting a bad example, ignoring importance of "speaking Truth"

I want you to think carefully about Trump's election.

1. Day one of election, he gets accused of Sexual Misconduct (#MeToo). This fails to stick.
2. They accuse him of Russian Collusion after that.
3. Then they accuse him of Abuse of Power (ironically, during the COVID-19, many governors could qualify for abuse of power, as their actions are not only unconstitutional but also deeply un-American)
   
4. They try to force him to reveal his tax records, which is an invasion of privacy that no citizen would want done to them. Yet when he refuses, he is supposedly Obstructing Justice. Right, "justice."
   
5. They try at some point in all of this to impeach him, and manage only in Congress. In an actual court, however, they do not uphold this, and do not have him removed from office.
6. So now we have this Coronavirus thing, which is suspiciously sabotaging the economy by making most businesses unable to open properly (many people like me are uncomfortable wearing masks so these stores are open in name only). And it will continue probably until at least the next election.

And yet, despite this, he has kept most of his promises. The wall is being built despite red tape. Obama-era bureaucracy is being undone. Perhaps you should ask yourself who is REALLY lying to you.

Media Mistakes in the Trump Era: The Definitive List | Sharyl Attkisson

50 jumped up to 135, from the looks of this.

 

[stvdv]

He publicly lies too much. Thereby making "America bad again" NOT making "America great again", setting a bad example, ignoring importance of "speaking Truth"

I want you to think carefully about Trump's election.

Perhaps you should ask yourself who is REALLY lying to you.

My reply was very simple and clear "Trump lies too much"
IF you do not agree with that, then "Perhaps you should ask yourself who is REALLY lying"

 

[averageJOE]

Why not vote for Trump this Nov?
He has a record in public office now.
It can be compared with Biden's.
Each is better on some issues, & worse on others.
The net effect, ie, good vs bad in a range of matters,
looks murky. Predicting likely effects in office, I don't
see a clear preference, so it's 3rd party time for me.

This^^^^
I will not be voting for Trump or Biden for the same reasons. I, too, will be voting 3rd party.

 

[Mindmaster]

We agree on many things and I still don't understand why you see him as mostly moderate.

Let me go over a small list of right-wing positions:

1) Opposition to abortion. Check.
2) Tax cuts to the riches. Check.
3) Opposition to universal health care or anything similar. Check.
4) Stricter border control. Check.
5) Opposition to same-sex marriages. Check.

And I can keep going on...
How is he not clearly a right-wing politician?

1) Many people are opposed to abortion. I'm opposed because it was promoted to a black-hating eugenicist and in most cases, it is a poor judgement that requires it. I also don't like killing, for me a fertilized human egg is a potential human. I absolutely support birth control, as that prevents the killing feature. Rejecting abortion doesn't mean you're a woman-hating SOB, it means you find it distasteful or possibly unnecessary.

2) Actually, it was tax cuts for all. But, why mince...

3) Universal health care is weak, expensive, and provides terrible care. For most people working a job, this is irrelevant, and if they can't work they are getting insurance anyway through their state. I don't personally see where it matters when functionally it is irrelevant. To me, the last person I'd want running my healthcare is the government.

4) Our nations border control is far weaker than other nations. Until we are protecting at a level equivalent to other western nations, we've got work to do. I don't find this to be an argument. Border control is much tighter in nations that are far left the USA, we've been slacking. This isn't a left-right issue as much as it is a national sovereignty concern. If you have no border you have no nation regardless of the political leanings.

5) Obviously, this was a party-line issue. He backed the "traditional marriage" line because he had too, but when SCOTUS ruled on it he didn't appeal or ask for reconsideration, and said, "The court ruled, and I'm fine with it." Trump has plenty of LGBT personal friends despite what anyone thinks on the matter and it doesn't bother him at all. But, I don't feel this issue is enough to signify you are right-wing. You can be a traditionalist without being a zealot, and especially in the case of someone as non-religious as Trump, it's an obvious fantasy to think he's 'down' completely with the evangelistic worldview. Many people just feel traditional families are better for children, and I do as well. But, my opinion isn't shaped by some beliefs, but rather my life experience so, YMMV.

But, I must point out in this thread I see a lot of black and white ideas on politics, and it's never that simple. If you think it is, you've become an extremist.

 

[Mindmaster]

Why not vote for Trump this Nov?
He has a record in public office now.
It can be compared with Biden's.
Each is better on some issues, & worse on others.
The net effect, ie, good vs bad in a range of matters,
looks murky. Predicting likely effects in office, I don't
see a clear preference, so it's 3rd party time for me.

I can understand your frustrations, I've had them myself. But, I feel the Democrats are losing it. Voting 3rd party doesn't really do anything but throw my vote in the dumpster. (might as well stay at home) If the local Democrat government is a reflection of what they want to do in the other branches of government I don't have a choice but to vote against them for national stability. Trump is good for my wallet, and ultimately that's the largest factor in the quality of my life, Obama-Biden was not. (I lost a lot of money, nearly lost my home, and lost a car) I wasn't irresponsible with my funds (and never have been), so pardon me if I don't want that again and will vote whatever way there is to assure that not happening. I have my beef with Trump and don't agree with him on many things, but I certainly haven't ever had to worry since his election about my financial situation. I feel my vote is about looking out for myself, and the Dems aren't bringing anything to the table, lol. 4 more years of Trump and I probably could retire... Just saying, lol.

 

[sun rise]

"Let me count the ways".

He's immoral in so many dimensions: Lying, cheating, narcissism and many more.
He's mentally incompetent.
He's a divider not a uniter.
He loves and tries to emulate dictators.
He hates the poor and screws those in the middle and bottom at every opportunity.
He emulates Putin.
He generates chaos.
Under him, we've become a ****hole country with civilized nations acting to keep out from even visiting on tourism.
He's an artifact of the past.

 

[Koldo]

1) Many people are opposed to abortion. I'm opposed because it was promoted to a black-hating eugenicist and in most cases, it is a poor judgement that requires it. I also don't like killing, for me a fertilized human egg is a potential human. I absolutely support birth control, as that prevents the killing feature. Rejecting abortion doesn't mean you're a woman-hating SOB, it means you find it distasteful or possibly unnecessary.

2) Actually, it was tax cuts for all. But, why mince...

3) Universal health care is weak, expensive, and provides terrible care. For most people working a job, this is irrelevant, and if they can't work they are getting insurance anyway through their state. I don't personally see where it matters when functionally it is irrelevant. To me, the last person I'd want running my healthcare is the government.

4) Our nations border control is far weaker than other nations. Until we are protecting at a level equivalent to other western nations, we've got work to do. I don't find this to be an argument. Border control is much tighter in nations that are far left the USA, we've been slacking. This isn't a left-right issue as much as it is a national sovereignty concern. If you have no border you have no nation regardless of the political leanings.

5) Obviously, this was a party-line issue. He backed the "traditional marriage" line because he had too, but when SCOTUS ruled on it he didn't appeal or ask for reconsideration, and said, "The court ruled, and I'm fine with it." Trump has plenty of LGBT personal friends despite what anyone thinks on the matter and it doesn't bother him at all. But, I don't feel this issue is enough to signify you are right-wing. You can be a traditionalist without being a zealot, and especially in the case of someone as non-religious as Trump, it's an obvious fantasy to think he's 'down' completely with the evangelistic worldview. Many people just feel traditional families are better for children, and I do as well. But, my opinion isn't shaped by some beliefs, but rather my life experience so, YMMV.

But, I must point out in this thread I see a lot of black and white ideas on politics, and it's never that simple. If you think it is, you've become an extremist.

Whether you agree with those is not what I was talking about. I mentioned those points as right-wing points that Trumps agrees with. How is he moderate?

 

[Mindmaster]

Whether you agree with those is not what I was talking about. I mentioned those points as right-wing points that Trumps agrees with. How is he moderate?

Except that they're not right-wing talking points only. I live in a Democrat for the half-a-century region and even they won't call "gay marriage" that... They call it a "civil union" and don't afford it the same rights. Literally, every level of my government is a Democratically run body, so are they right-wing too?

Most of the people on this board are far left, and they probably don't get it. That's OK. I don't hate anyone for it. See it how you want to see it. Think Trump is some racist or fascist? Well, it's untrue. Think he hates LGBT? Think again... (most of the issues I've seen him taking with the T are logistical, or practical in nature.) It's easy to have extreme "feels good" positions when you're not making the decisions, but it's difficult to apply them in reality. But, my experience with the left has been that they're miserable people and if what they believe is right then they'd be happier for it. I'm not down with that, and never will be. Personally, I've been a dyed-in-the-wool centrist/realist. Sometimes the Dems do what I want, but lately... Oh boy... they so aren't... lol

I'm not going to become a miserable person styling others as fascists or racists, and I'll never accept doing that or those who do. (except in the case where someone directly disparaged someone on that basis) Most of you here are smart enough to figure out it's not true, but for whatever reason keep using the lingo. It's not my job to convince you that I'm right, it's your job to get with your center and purify yourselves. I also won't support anyone using that language regardless of their party. If party leaders are trying to style people as racists or fascists I don't consider them any longer. I have no time in my life for hating on folks, especially if you think they're dumb or mistaken. That makes it even worse in my view... If you know better than them, act better than them, but the evidence seems the opposite. The left seems miserable, mean, demeaning, and worse. Who wants to live like that regardless of the policy points? I'll pass.

 

[Left Coast]

1. Day one of election, he gets accused of Sexual Misconduct (#MeToo). This fails to stick.

Evidence of Trump's sexual misconduct, including allegations from multiple women and a literal recording of him bragging about grabbing women's genitalia without consent, started long before election day.

2. They accuse him of Russian Collusion after that.

Even Republicans in Congress have admitted that Russia engaged in an intentional social media campaign to help Trump get elected. This is a widely known bipartisan fact.

3. Then they accuse him of Abuse of Power (ironically, during the COVID-19, many governors could qualify for abuse of power, as their actions are not only unconstitutional but also deeply un-American)

A weak tu quoque doesn't excuse Trump's behavior. He was charged with abuse of power for withholding financial assistance to Ukraine until they agreed to investigate Biden's son.

Stay-at-home orders during a pandemic are not unconstitutional, they are obvious public safety measures to prevent people from dying.

3. They try to force him to reveal his tax records, which is an invasion of privacy that no citizen would want done to them. Yet when he refuses, he is supposedly Obstructing Justice. Right, "justice."

Trump's refusal to release his tax returns, as every Republican and Democratic presidential nominee has done for decades, screams corruption/fraud but was not the reason he was charged with obstructing justice. He was charged with obstructing justice for refusing to release documents to the House relevant to their investigation and instructing members of his administration to refuse to testify in the investigation. In other words, basic stuff you'd expect from an incredibly corrupt Presidency.

Factbox: Abuse of power, obstruction - the charges against Trump explained.

4. They try at some point in all of this to impeach him, and manage only in Congress. In an actual court, however, they do not uphold this, and do not have him removed from office.

You don't know what you're talking about. Congress is how Presidents get impeached. He was impeached in the House, and the Republican-controlled Senate then voted not to remove him from office. I don't know what "actual court" outside Congress you think would decide these things.

5. So now we have this Coronavirus thing, which is suspiciously sabotaging the economy by making most businesses unable to open properly (many people like me are uncomfortable wearing masks so these stores are open in name only). And it will continue probably until at least the next election.

It's not "suspicious," it's the predictable result of a global pandemic.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can understand your frustrations, I've had them myself.

No frustration at all.
I've nothing emotionally invested in either major candidate winning or losing.

But, I feel the Democrats are losing it. Voting 3rd party doesn't really do anything but throw my vote in the dumpster.

It registers my preferred values.

(might as well stay at home) If the local Democrat government is a reflection of what they want to do in the other branches of government I don't have a choice but to vote against them for national stability. Trump is good for my wallet, and ultimately that's the largest factor in the quality of my life, Obama-Biden was not. (I lost a lot of money, nearly lost my home, and lost a car) I wasn't irresponsible with my funds (and never have been), so pardon me if I don't want that again and will vote whatever way there is to assure that not happening. I have my beef with Trump and don't agree with him on many things, but I certainly haven't ever had to worry since his election about my financial situation. I feel my vote is about looking out for myself, and the Dems aren't bringing anything to the table, lol. 4 more years of Trump and I probably could retire... Just saying, lol.

I will be staying home to vote.
(Mail in ballot, ya know.)

 

[Koldo]

Except that they're not right-wing talking points only. I live in a Democrat for the half-a-century region and even they won't call "gay marriage" that... They call it a "civil union" and don't afford it the same rights. Literally, every level of my government is a Democratically run body, so are they right-wing too?

I will only address this part of your post because the rest is a rant that has nothing to do with me.

I have brought up 5 points and claimed that those points are right-wing. I will support my claim:

1)

Source:
Abortion Trends by Party Identification



2)

"Critics of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-New York, have lined up to paint her proposed 70 percent tax rate on income above $10 million as extreme, unrealistic and not in line with what voters want.

But a new Fox News poll finds that raising income taxes on earnings above $10 million is a policy that enjoys broad bipartisan support among 85 percent of Democrats, 54 percent of Republicans, and 70 percent of registered voters overall. Hiking taxes on incomes over one million was almost as popular overall, with 65 percent support."

Source:
Republicans support higher taxes on the super-rich, according to a Fox News survey - Bangor Daily News


3)

"Republicans and Democrats continue to hold opposing views on whether or not it is the responsibility of the federal government to ensure health care coverage. While about eight-in-ten Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents (81%) say the federal government has a responsibility to make sure all Americans have health coverage, a similar share of Republicans and Republican leaners (77%) say the government does not have this responsibility."

Source:
Democrats differ over best way to provide health coverage for all Americans


4)

"Likewise, Republicans are more likely than Democrats to view increasing border security (93%, compared to 55%) and imposing new fines on businesses that hire illegal immigrants (83%, compared to 54%) as effective policies."

Source:
Republicans and Democrats in Different Worlds on Immigration


5)
"Three-quarters of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents (75%) and fewer than half of Republicans and Republican leaners (44%) favor same-sex marriage."

Source:
Changing Attitudes on Same-Sex Marriage


Please explain why there is a sizeable difference between republicans and democrats if it has nothing to do with right-wing/left-wing policy.