Why women shouldn't be ordained in any Christian church. (Christian)

[Kenny]

In the early 70's in the Church we attended, women could not be at the pulpit unless there was a male up there also to "cover her". I notice that in Mormon Churches there is a whole collection of "Key Holders" up there, perhaps for the same reason? I did not see that happen at the last church I attended.

Yes, Ellen. That, along with so many other issues. The great thing with technology, is that greater understanding is now available at the fingertip

 

[Katja]

Jesus's twelve original disciples, the Apostles, were all men.

And who ran when Jesus was crucified? Oh yeah, the men. Those manly men, the pillars of faith, etc. Ran like scared little children while the women stayed close. Who saw him first and were trusted to be the first messengers of his resurrection? Oh yeah, not the men.

Do you think churchgoing is strictly for old ladies?

What on earth in my post would make you think I think this?

Women don't have a strong enough and deep enough voice to preach from the pulpit.

Reading the bible is one thing but preaching is another.

I'm so glad this site has a "funny" rating for posts. (If it would allow two ratings, I also would have added "creative")

 

[David1967]

Yes, Ellen. That, along with so many other issues. The great thing with technology, is that greater understanding is now available at the fingertip

You are so right. I remember the days when what you knew about another faith was from what your pastor told you. Well meaning as they were they were often misinformed themselves. Now, as you said, accurate information is at our fingertips. With a little discernment of course.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Yes, Ellen. That, along with so many other issues. The great thing with technology, is that greater understanding is now available at the fingertip

Lately, with my discovery of Navajo culture, I feel less need to struggle with the closed minded. People like me are seen as totally normal.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The man gives the seed: the woman nourishes it in her womb.

This is the law of nature.

The Lord Jesus Christ provided the Seed, His Word.

Mixed. I think that I agree partly. I don't follow the argument in the OP.

I think that the practice of men in tribal and priestly leadership is Jewish, but there are no hard rules about who can prophesy or who can be wise. There are areas of the NT that fit the OP partially, but I can think of examples of NT passages that do not fit with the OP.

Genesis 3:16 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Its significant that the seed comes from a woman, and this has a prominent place in Christian discussions about the Logos.

Galatians 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." This is inclusive of the sisters. All are Sons in this terminology.

The twelve apostles have to be men, because they are the apostles to the Jews all over the world. Their commission is finished, and that is recorded at the end of Mark 16. After them comes a new effort to reach non-Jews, starting with Paul and Barnabas but not limited to them. The non-Jewish apostles can be women and men. Romans 16:1 lists a female deacon. Also manuscript studies may indicate that there is a female apostle, Junia, mentioned in Romans 16:7 (Ehrman's Misquoting Jesus) but that someone decided after the fact to consider Junia to be a male for political reasons.

A relevant passage that does not contradict the OP is 1 Timothy 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man..." but is a far cry from saying all that stuff about seed, because women have the same seed planted when they hear.

Also I don't think that this is a huge matter. It could matter, sometimes. If we look at all the problems with preaching, most problems are not because females are preaching. Most problems are not specific to the sex of the speakers.

The archbishop in the video is not getting his point across well, because his explanation is not explaining. He's giving an opinion, but the stuff about the seed is not working. He's putting forward a mystery or a parable, but he's not explaining it. Its not an explanation more of a restatement of this material from 1 Timothy 2 which people wonder about to this day. A bride represents the church, and a husband represents Christ yet both are part of the church and are in Christ, therefore the reasoning is not apparent. To *really* go into what Timothy is talking about would probably require backtracking into Jewish teachings about marriage, why their women wear headcoverings, why they sit on opposite sites etc etc.

 

[syo]

The Lord Jesus Christ provided the Seed, His Word.

The Church, His Wife, nourishes the Seed, the Word as a child in the womb.

Jesus is the groom and the church is the bride. The christian ceremonies are the wedding and priests are Jesus the groom and the believers are the church the bride. this is why priests must be male in christianity.

 

[David1967]

Jesus is the groom and the church is the bride. The christian ceremonies are the wedding and priests are Jesus the groom and the believers are the church the bride. this is why priests must be male in christianity.

"It's symbolic of course"

 

[syo]

"It's symbolic of course"

no, it's literal.

 

[David1967]

no, it's literal.

I can't tell if your being serious or not, so to avoid sticking my foot in my mouth with a wrong response I'll wait.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Jesus is the groom and the church is the bride. The christian ceremonies are the wedding and priests are Jesus the groom and the believers are the church the bride. this is why priests must be male in christianity.

Many/most religious books I have studied document that women should look to men. (Gen. 3:16, Surah 4;34, and 1 Cor. 16) there are many, many other references. Many women have such horrific experiences with men that this won't happen in this life, me among them. I am pleased to love God and worship him, and to do his will in regard to loving others. But getting in a relationship with a man, NOPE.

 

[syo]

I can't tell if your being serious or not, so to avoid sticking my foot in my mouth with a wrong response I'll wait.

I'm serious actually. Maybe i'm dumb

 

[David1967]

I'm serious actually. Maybe i'm dumb

I would never think you were "dumb". It's just hard sometimes to tell what is humor and not unless it's followed by an emoji. When I said it was symbolic, I meant it as the church is obviously not a literal woman waiting to marry Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

The man gives the seed: the woman nourishes it in her womb.

This is the law of nature.

The Lord Jesus Christ provided the Seed, His Word.

The Church, His Wife, nourishes the Seed, the Word as a child in the womb.

Women are not created by God to provide the Seed, the Word.

Only men are.

Listen to Archbishop Sheen:

19:50

And yet we find through science that both men and women provide the “seed.” That’s the problem with misusing the Bible as some purveyor of fact.

 

[sojourner]

Women don't have a strong enough and deep enough voice to preach from the pulpit.

Reading the bible is one thing but preaching is another.

I’ve been a preacher for nigh on 20 years. I know the craft well. I call bullspit.

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

And yet we find through science that both men and women provide the “seed.” That’s the problem with misusing the Bible as some purveyor of fact.

The woman's "seed" in Genesis 3:16 simply means offspring or children, not a female gamete. The man's "seed" in that same verse means offspring or children, not a male gamete. SEED in that verse means children common to both parents.

Going to science, the male gamete penetrates the female gamete as a farmer sows seed in the soil to plant a new crop. The male gamete is the seed in this sense and the female gamete is the fertile soil or earth as an analogy.

Putting enmity between the SEED (children, progeny, descendants) common to both parents means making the brothers and/or sisters enemies amongst themselves.

 

[sojourner]

The woman's "seed" in Genesis 3:16 simply means offspring or children, not a female gamete. The man's "seed" in that same verse means offspring or children, not a male gamete. SEED in that verse means children common to both parents.

Going to science, the male gamete penetrates the female gamete as a farmer sows seed in the soil to plant a new crop. The male gamete is the seed in this sense and the female gamete is the fertile soil or earth as an analogy.

Putting enmity between the SEED (children, progeny, descendants) common to both parents means making the brothers and/or sisters enemies amongst themselves.

The writers of Genesis had no knowledge of gametes, so your use of that scientific knowledge to confuse an ancient metaphor with some sort of absolute truth while, at the same time, using the Genesis metaphor to support a misinterpretation of some later addition to what Paul said, is disingenuous and really bad scholarship.

Your statement is misogynistic. God doesn’t hate women.

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

The writers of Genesis had no knowledge of gametes, so your use of that scientific knowledge to confuse an ancient metaphor with some sort of absolute truth while, at the same time, using the Genesis metaphor to support a misinterpretation of some later addition to what Paul said, is disingenuous and really bad scholarship.

Your statement is misogynistic. God doesn’t hate women.

So, you don't agree that SEED in Genesis means CHILDREN?

Why is my understanding of what the word SEED means "hateful" to women?

 

[sojourner]

So, you don't agree that SEED in Genesis means CHILDREN?

Why is my understanding of what the word SEED means "hateful" to women?

No, I assert that you can’t abuse modern science to bolster an ancient metaphor.
Your abuse of Genesis to support your idea that women are unsuitable for ministry is indicative of the misogyny that has typically accompanied a male-dominated profession.

 

[Ellen Brown]

So, you don't agree that SEED in Genesis means CHILDREN?

Why is my understanding of what the word SEED means "hateful" to women?

Any belief system that continues to "punish" women for the Apple Incident is abhorrent to me.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus is the groom and the church is the bride. The christian ceremonies are the wedding and priests are Jesus the groom and the believers are the church the bride. this is why priests must be male in christianity.

Except that, in Christianity, there is now same-sex marriage.