Why within? Why not without?

[The Crimson Universe]

Brahman is all-pervasive / omnipresent.

If its present both inside and outside the bodies then why are we told by masters to seek the Self 'within' us?

Why not seek the Brahman that is present in the air, water or outer space?

 

[sayak83]

Brahman is all-pervasive / omnipresent.

If its present both inside and outside the bodies then why are we told by masters to seek the Self 'within' us?

Why not seek the Brahman that is present in the air, water or outer space?

Because the self is directly cognizable, while the outer world is only indirectly cognizable via senses.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

Because the self is directly cognizable, while the outer world is only indirectly cognizable via senses.

By outer world i don't mean the forms of nature itself that are percieved by the senses but the infinite spirit underlying all forms.
Isn't it possible for the yogi to seek that which is lying beneath the sky and outer space, hidden by maya?

 

[Orbit]

Can you interact with a rock? Does the wind increase your understanding? Of course you grow from within, it's the only place for you to develop. You can be inspired by the natural world, but looking through a microscope won't give you spiritual understanding.

ETA I just noticed this was a DIR and want to point out my alignment with Advaita Vedanta, in addition to Dinner.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

Of course you grow from within, it's the only place for you to develop.

How does one look within?
I mean all i can find within are my thoughts, feelings and memories. If i go beyond that i will hit a blank wall. Is this what Brahman feels like?

 

[Orbit]

How does one look within?
I mean all i can find within are my thoughts, feelings and memories. If i go beyond that i will hit a blank wall. Is this what Brahman feels like?

The blank wall is where it's at. Perhaps read up on meditation a bit, and give it a try. It's more about connectedness, and that's where the mystic in me feels that you are the universe doing you; you're not separate from it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Brahman is all-pervasive / omnipresent.

If its present both inside and outside the bodies then why are we told by masters to seek the Self 'within' us?

Why not seek the Brahman that is present in the air, water or outer space?

When masters speak of "within," they are not referring to "inside the body."

Do you really think you can fit Brahman in your body?

"Within" refers to within your awareness...in order to gain understanding of what you are in your true nature.

You can seek Brahman wherever you like. After all, all is Brahman. But so long as you are drawing that dichotomy of I/other, you may find yourself struggling to find that Brahman "within."

 

[SalixIncendium]

By outer world i don't mean the forms of nature itself that are percieved by the senses but the infinite spirit underlying all forms.
Isn't it possible for the yogi to seek that which is lying beneath the sky and outer space, hidden by maya?

When a yogi realizes the Self as Brahman, there is nothing that "lies beneath."

When you are lucid in your dream (in other words, when you realize you are dreaming), what is there to seek that lies beneath the sense objects in your dream?

 

[SalixIncendium]

How does one look within?
I mean all i can find within are my thoughts, feelings and memories. If i go beyond that i will hit a blank wall. Is this what Brahman feels like?

Go beyond the blank wall. There you will find Brahman.

 

[JustGeorge]

When you are lucid in your dream (in other words, when you realize you are dreaming), what is there to seek that lies beneath the sense objects in your dream?

I'm not sure what you mean here. In my lucid dreams, I seem to want to train myself how to fly, showing myself how easy it is so I can do it when I awake(but I never can, even though I follow the exact directions I gave myself).

Go beyond the blank wall. There you will find Brahman.

Would you say this is something a person does consciously, or just 'happens' when the time is right? (Or, something else?)

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm not sure what you mean here. In my lucid dreams, I seem to want to train myself how to fly, showing myself how easy it is so I can do it when I awake(but I never can, even though I follow the exact directions I gave myself).

My point was that there is nothing underlying a dream, the dream's sense objects are illusory, just as sense objects in waking consciousness are illusory to the Self-realized.

Would you say this is something a person does consciously, or just 'happens' when the time is right? (Or, something else?)

It is something that, on a rare occasion, can happen spontaneously, or after years of practice and discipline silencing the ego-self, also known as the "monkey mind."

 

[Martin]

When masters speak of "within," they are not referring to "inside the body."

Do you really think you can fit Brahman in your body?

"Within" refers to within your awareness...in order to gain understanding of what you are in your true nature.

You can seek Brahman wherever you like. After all, all is Brahman. But so long as you are drawing that dichotomy of I/other, you may find yourself struggling to find that Brahman "within."

Though in the Upanishads, Atman is said to dwell "in the cave of the heart", which suggests that focusing attention inwards is appropriate.
Focusing attention outwards only produces activity in the mind.

 

[Martin]

How does one look within?
I mean all i can find within are my thoughts, feelings and memories. If i go beyond that i will hit a blank wall. Is this what Brahman feels like?

What I find helpful is moving attention downwards, from head to heart. There is a great stillness beneath the movement of the mind.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Brahman is all-pervasive / omnipresent.
If its present both inside and outside the bodies then why are we told by masters to seek the Self 'within' us?
Why not seek the Brahman that is present in the air, water or outer space?

Bodies are illusions. There is no body, only Brahman as per Advaita. Brahman is the body that you perceive and it is inside and outside too. Advaita masters want you to realize this.
Yeah, being the stuff that everything in the universe is constituted of, it is air, water and space too. It is 'what exists' without there being any other thing.
'Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti' (What exists is one, there is no second).

 

[Aupmanyav]

How does one look within?
I mean all i can find within are my thoughts, feelings and memories. If i go beyond that i will hit a blank wall. Is this what Brahman feels like?

What these thoughts, feelings and memories tell you about the world and life (that is an attempt to understand the world, life and self).
Brahman is not a blank wall. it is very dynamic, is not still even for a Planck's moment, it is like a kaleidoscope, all the time changing colors.

Would you say this is something a person does consciously, or just 'happens' when the time is right? (Or, something else?)

Search is conscious effort, does not happen without that. Answer to Buddha came after long years of learning and penance. It may seem that it happened instantaneously (when the time was ripe ).

Though in the Upanishads, Atman is said to dwell "in the cave of the heart", which suggests that focusing attention inwards is appropriate. Focusing attention outwards only produces activity in the mind.

Inward is half the story, the other half is outside. Both have their place. People who look inward only get trapped in a maze of mysticism.

 

[ameyAtmA]

Brahman is all-pervasive / omnipresent.

If its present both inside and outside the bodies then why are we told by masters to seek the Self 'within' us?

Why not seek the Brahman that is present in the air, water or outer space?

I am one possibly odd person that does this. I can see and feel Brahman in the space outside or "behind the scenes" , in the stillness, quiet.

I had initially expressed how I experience Brahman outside in this post but then edited the post a little to make it more generic and less personal.

>>Meditation on oneself, looking deep within and nidhidhyAsana (contemplation on what is observed), the silent One within and without - does make you eventually realize the mahAvAkya aham BrahmAsmi -- as told by the shAstra and AchAryas, but before that, the deep presence of Brahman pervading space.

Once convinced of the formless - nirAkAr Brahman in the golden silence outside, it is then easy to go inside IMHO.

>>Go to a height, like a hill, or an open space, maybe lake shore or ocean shore. Look as far as you can -- gives a feel for the vastness and still silence of Brahman's presence outside. => this does not immediately jump to "sarvaM khalvidam Brahman" because at least for me -- this makes evident the presence of the nirAkAr interwined in the physical world. but not yet the physical world. For that, more observation outside , nidhidhyAsan and the tat-tvam-asi realization goes hand-in-hand.

tat-padArtha is not yet extended to the physical universe. For me, the nirAkAr and sAkAr is a Person, the same Person , Highest AtmA ('Self') of all -- and that is real me. This may be different/a deviation from the common understanding. Communication with the nirAkar ends up with the same sAkAr bhagvAn.

>>OR look at the vast open sky a few hrs before sunset - the sun has to be in the sky, and make sure the panorama does not have manmade constructions like tall buildings in the sillohoutte.

Here when I say Person I mean Agency.

Like for instance, I can feel Brahman, The Presence, in this local being as well as outside. Brahman IS.
I do not stress that there is no subject-object and all those gymnastics.

There is an agency and power to Brahman. Brahman facilitates , and responds.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Like for instance, I can feel Brahman, The Presence, in this local being as well as outside. Brahman IS.
I do not stress that there is no subject-object and all those gymnastics.
There is an agency and power to Brahman. Brahman facilitates , and responds.

I am Brahman, I am that which constitutes the whole universe. Subject Object belong to maya, the illusory samsara. I think you will agree that in Paramarthika, at the highest level of truth, subject object duality does not exist. Since Brahman is physical energy, it responds in its own way. It does not respond to human or wordly affairs. It is Nirvikara, Nirlipta, that is without any blemish. And any kind of response or interference in human or worldly affairs will be a blemish, Vikara. Ameyatma, I think you are burdened by your prejudices. If you abandon them, you will travel lighter and faster.