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Featured Why we know that there was no global flood.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Subduction Zone, Nov 21, 2017.

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  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    This thread will be dedicated to the evidence that tells us that there was no traditional flood of Noah. That idea fails in almost all aspects of science. Though of course if any believers think that they have some evidence for the flood those thoughts are welcome as well.

    I am also willing to discuss videos, if posters are willing to discuss them, and they will also have to be willing to discuss this series that starts with this video:



    There are of course other arguments too, but a video can serve as a primer on the subject.
     
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  2. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    There are so many good 'debunking' videos of the biblical flood....

    Two videos by Potholer





    Another by Aron Ra

     
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  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Yep, there is a whole series by Aron Ra. The video that I posted was the first in the series.

    Meanwhile this is my favorite picture. With enough knowledge one can see that this picture alone refutes the flood myth:

    [​IMG]
    And a link to the site. clicking on the image at the site blows it up to full screen. Clicking on it a second time enlarges it another three times at least.
     
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  5. NewGuyOnTheBlock

    NewGuyOnTheBlock Cult Survivor

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    Potholer is great!
     
  6. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    There are two things in the video that give me clues that there must have been a flood.
    First, there is a lot of water behind the guy talking. It had to come from somewhere.
    Second, I cannot take a guy seriously with such long hair. Mainly because I’m jealous.
     
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  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    If you grow enough hair you will float.
     
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  8. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    But, on the other hand, his hair lacks body, which throws some doubt on his case.
     
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  9. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    There was a lot of flooding when the Ice age ended, not covering the whole earth, but quite possibly covering where Noah lived.
     
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    There have always been local floods. The problem with a local flood is that it negates the need for an Ark in the first place.
     
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  11. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    The flooding that occurred during the end of the last Ice age was a lot more than just a local flood, it was global and involved massive streams of water flowing of the ice shelves, and a massive rise in sea level presumably flooding 90% of earths inhabitants that would have lived near the old ice age sea level.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The rise of sea level was slow, in human terms. It would hardly be called "flooding" There was some local rapid floods, but that was the exception and not the rule. And I do not think that there was any glaciation in traditional Bible sites.

    You are now grasping at straws

    ETA: Yep, from this image we can see that the ice did not come anywhere near the Mideast in the last glaciation:

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    There were catastrophic floods associated with the Ice Age, but they were not associated with the Middle East where Noah would have lived. The 'scablands' of Western USA is an example of glacial catastrophic flooding due to the collapse of a glacial ice lake. The flooding that occurred in the Black Sea is related rising sea levels and flooding the area around the sea, but it was not catastrophic.

    The archaeological and geologic evidence indicates that the Biblical flood was one or more catastrophic floods of the Tigris and Euphrates river valley.

    An interesting side note to the mythical scenario of Genesis Creation and Noah's flood is that the lower Tigris Euphrates Valley, now covered by water, was an ideal agricultural paradise, and rainfall was higher all across the Middle East and Northern Africa, until the melt of the glaciers flooded these delta regions. This fact resulted in a Prairie environment with lakes where ancient Neolithic humans enjoyed an abundant paradise. As rainfall dropped this paradise ended, and humans were forced to migrate to the river valleys like the Nile and Tigris Euphrates valley. This was indeed a lost paradise scenario that could have been projected into the Genesis narrative. We owe the development of agriculture and civilization in part to this migration into river valleys, and of course the common narrative myths of great floods that grew around the events in these valleys.
     
    #13 shunyadragon, Nov 22, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  14. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Why do you assume Noah lived in the middle east, the middle east is where Noah ended up AFTER the flood
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    You are venturing into the foggy hypothetical, and the simple fact that there is no geologic nor archaeological evidence of a regional flood large enough for Noah to originate somewhere else and end up on Mount Ararat in the Middle East.

    The evidence is pretty substantial that the flood is most likely a catastrophic flood of the Tigris Euphrates Valley where the myth was first recorded in Babylonian tablets. The presence of ancient cities buried in flood sediments at the right timing is part of the evidence that supports this.

    The proper way to view ancient narratives in scripture, like Genesis. should considered narrative set in history and not history in and of themselves.
     
    #15 shunyadragon, Nov 22, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You are not thinking logically. You already admitted to a local flood at best and I merely showed that it would not have occurred as you speculated. If Noah ended up in the Mideast he had to have started from the Mideast. The myth was probably based upon a real flood, but that is no reason to assume that there was a Noah. That part of the story falls apart completely when investigated too.

    By the way, I am not the one that is assuming here. You are. You are not thinking about the results of your beliefs.

    And shunyadragon is right about the fact that they have found the flood that probably started the myth:

    Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth
     
  17. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Ever heard of the ocean, if you enter the ocean from a flood you could end up anywhere in the world, like the middle east.
     
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  18. jonathan180iq

    jonathan180iq Well-Known Member

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    Genesis...

    If you would care to take at stab at explaining anywhere else on the Earth that these stories were set, I'd be all ears.
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Actually no, not in the sense of a flood. you are grasping at hypothetical straws and frog hairs to explain this reasoning relating the flood to the ocean, because no claim by those that support the Biblical Flood claim this.

    How could you to Mount Ararat from the Ocean?
     
  20. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Genesis does not say Noah lived in the Middle East before the flood.
     
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