1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Why Was Jesus Necessary?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,007
    Ratings:
    +3,622
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Irony, in light of THIS:

    Pretty much ALL my posts are short, especially when compared to yours which frequently list like 10 bible verses, and contain YOUR PERSONAL version of what the bible supposedly says (instead of what it clearly says...)
     
  2. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,007
    Ratings:
    +3,622
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    The above? Is extremely egotistical, arrogant and highly judgment of roughly 70% of the planet...


    1) you ASSume that YOUR god and ONLY YOUR VERSON of the christian god must be the "right" god

    2) you ASSume that YOUR interpretation of the bible is the ONLY one that is "correct"

    Notebook: I would estimate that as much as 50% of Christianity REJECTS your version of things outright....

    3) you ASSume that YOUR version of "morality" is magically "higher" than 70% of the planet.

    4) IF YOU ARE CORRECT? THIS MEANS YOUR GOD HAS A FAIL RATE OF 70% OR WORSE.

    Hmmmmm.....

    if your god were a CAR? The company that made it would be bankrupt.

    If your god were a DRUG? IT WOULD BE RECALLED AND TAKEN OFF THE MARKET AS A COMPLETE FAIL.

    Face it -- you are only making your case WORSE.
     
  3. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,007
    Ratings:
    +3,622
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    But it's just PEACHY for YOU to accuse me of worse things?

    Irony.
     
  4. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,007
    Ratings:
    +3,622
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    well stated, Good Sir (or Madam). I was especially struck by the parts I put in italics.

    <raises coffee cup in toast>
     
  5. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,007
    Ratings:
    +3,622
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Indeed. That's not really something you want to see, in a being who is all powerful: Massive Egotism.
     
  6. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,007
    Ratings:
    +3,622
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Interesting take, and I have to agree-- what sort of All Powerful entity would require constant adoration, anyway?

    Not one that was ... good...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,910
    Ratings:
    +7,878
    Greek and Roman gods, from what I know, always had some sort of sacrifice involved. Cant remember the details in my history art class; but, it made me laugh. Jews dont have that type of god-think sacrifice human; so, if jesus followed jewish customs, most likely it wasnt his idea for him to be literally sacrificed rather than him humble himself in service to others and god.

    He could have used another method. However, the idea is when he dies physical death, you die to flesh and when he resurrected in spirit, so does the beilever. It shows one must die to self and rise in spirit.

    I dont know any other way to sacrifice something of the highest value; ones life.

    But then, even though I understand why and how it I still feel its barbaric.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,910
    Ratings:
    +7,878
    So believers can learn for themselves rather than have someone else do it for them.
     
  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    25,887
    Ratings:
    +10,071
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Learn what?

    .
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,910
    Ratings:
    +7,878
    Sacrificing their ego and things they feel are turning them away from god. Spiritual detox. Many religions do it. Just, christians do it through mirroring and/or impersoning (depending on denomination) the life, wounds, and resurrection of christ.

    Basically, they learn to live a humble life. Get rid of stuff like pride, ego, thins that they feel are negative inside (gut feelings). Then are resurrected or born again to a new person and see life in a (ideally) or humble and more people oriented state of mind.

    They learn how to sacrifice their old self to live a new life in order to experience and share gratitude for living in prayer and hope for a better life for what they do or believe in this.
     
  11. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    25,887
    Ratings:
    +10,071
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    That might be great if everyone in the world was given the chance, but they aren't. As I pointed out in my OP, god didn't make the playing field level, where each and every person on earth was given a shot at redemption. So why were only some apprised of god's requirement---many, many never getting the message? The only answer I can see is that god simply doesn't care about everyone, only a select few.


    .
     
  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    23,910
    Ratings:
    +7,878
    Actually, I dont know. I cant speak of god as if god actually had some sort of influence and dictation for people. Doesnt add up for me.

    Well, christianity is not a faith that promotes equalness. Its highly dependent on who believes and who doesnt. Id assume people who speak for god have that uneven playing field probably for power and political purposes. History is full of people using religion as a backbone for power and control.

    But if I spoke for god, no. Of course god doesnt care. Shrugs. Why do we (no-believers?) think he should?
     
  13. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,007
    Ratings:
    +3,622
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Hmmm... because all the god-promoters, everywhere, are so frequently bragging on how "just" and "good" and so forth, their favorite deity is?

    And we, being thinking creatures, can easily point out where their system of beliefs create conditions wherein the god cannot possibly qualify for any of those traits?

    I think of it this way:

    If I built a system of public transportation using, say electric trains. And I had 3 rails in the system, with a live, high-voltage middle rail that was exposed to the elements. And if it was fairly easy for a human wandering around my facility, to wander down to the rails, do you think I need to be responsible for whatever happens to them?

    Or should I simply allow "the natural order of things" to take place, and the first few poor humans who stumbled down on my rail system, get electrocuted as an example of what NOT to do?

    What if I picked at random, 1 in 10 people, and hinted to them, that the middle rail MIGHT be dangerous? But I did it in code, with clues. And then I let them tell others-- or not.

    Or what if I put flyers warning of the danger around the facility-- but I wrote them in rhyming verse, in code, that only subtly hinted at the risk... moreover, suppose I wrote everything in Sanskrit-- a long dead language.

    What would you think of the person who created such a system of transportation? What if there were LAWS requiring everyone to USE this system?

    For this is exactly how many religions operate. Only worse... there is no direct, observable people being killed by stepping on the third rail...!
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  14. Miracle

    Miracle Christian

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2018
    Messages:
    69
    Ratings:
    +14
    Religion:
    I don't believe in it.
    This has nothing to do with your question but, how do I make a thread....like open a discussion. I've been trying to figure it out.....
     
  15. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,007
    Ratings:
    +3,622
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Welcome! To make a new post, you need to navigate to the top of one of the sub-pages, i.e. under the top-name "FORUMS". That is in the grey bar across the top, when you first get to RF's home page.

    When you click FORUMS, it will open the top-level of all the available pages.

    Go down the page, and pick an appropriate sub-page that you want to create a new thread in.

    Let's walk through an example: Click FORUMS (the top level)

    Scroll down, then click Religious Debates-- this opens up a new page, that has all the sub-pages under this category.

    Down the page a bit, click General Religious Debates, which opens up yet another page.

    At that point? You should see a largish button near the top-right of this page: POST NEW THREAD.

    Click that. Fill in the title, your starting (opening/original) post, click post and there you go!

    :D
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Miracle

    Miracle Christian

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2018
    Messages:
    69
    Ratings:
    +14
    Religion:
    I don't believe in it.
    Thank you so much!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    2,159
    Ratings:
    +756
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Sure, but it's not necessary. Our lives would be the same without such a doctrine. I stand by what I said.

    Just to remind you, Robin, I'm only engaging as part of a light hearted intellectual discussion. It is not my intent to undermine your faith. I hope you will be the best Christian you can be. If at any time this starts to get under your skin, just let me know and I will back off.

    If you are "destined" to go to hell, you might as well relax since whatever you do is not your choice.

    I'm not saying that all faiths are equal. Some are clearly closer to the truth than others. I personally think that Judaism is pretty doggone good. The thing is, Judaism is only meant for the Children of Israel, not the world. The only the a Gentile needs be is an ethical person who believes in God (of some sort).
    I don't think God is all that hidden. No matter where you go in the world, your culture will sense the divine and have a concept that right behavior is required.

    But that is specifically for us. We are set apart. Just as our priests have certain laws that apply only to them, we Children of Israel have a strictness that applies only to us, because we have a responsibility to the world that other peoples do not share.

    This is just nonsense. Jesus is irrelevant to Judaism. No offense to my Christian friends, but for you, the Tanakh functions a lot like Rorschach ink blots: you see in the text references to the messiah in places where it's not there. It's like seeing castles in cloud formations, or the Virgin Mary on toast.
    I've heard a few Christians say this before, but they are mistaken. Whoever made this up was lying. There is nothing in the Tanakh to support this.

    God has a right to say such things through his prophets. When human beings say things like this, it is Jew hatred.

    Although God asked for sacrifices (for our psychological benefit), the truth is that a broken heart and a contrite spirit is all that has ever been needed for our sins to be forgiven.

    I've read the entirety of the Christian Scriptures. Some things in it are pretty good, and some things I basically just see as ignorant.

    The book of Hebrews certainly does. It claims that the covenant between God and the Children of Israel (given first to Abraham, then expanded upon at Sinai) is abrogated. It says our priesthood is replaced by the priesthood of Mechizadek. On and on.

    In Genesis, God says that his covenant with Abraham and his descendants through Isaac is ETERNAL. It can't be fulfilled if by fulfilled you mean it is now ended. Not if you believe the Tanakh as you say.

    We killed MOST of the prophets? Of the prophets who wrote the sacred texts, which of them did we kill?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    14,144
    Ratings:
    +358
    Religion:
    Christian
    What am I supposed to do with you. I complain you posted 6 times in 9 minutes so you respond 12 times in 30 minutes. Do you read anything I type, ever?

    Every post I make shouldn't produce 2 or 3 from you. I have a lot of people to respond to who make much more challenging posts than you are so I can't have you clogging up my alerts page every single time we have a discussion.

    So it is possible for you to cut something, of some type, somewhere?
     
  19. 1robin

    1robin Christian/Baptist

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    Messages:
    14,144
    Ratings:
    +358
    Religion:
    Christian
    Ignored for content and time. I may just start responding to you last after I get to everyone else.
     
  20. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,354
    Ratings:
    +516
    Religion:
    Christian
    Well it's evidence, that you have no understanding why Jesus was necessary.

    Let's for say, our human law will say, if you break the law, the penalty of breaking the law, is death. So in breaking the law of God's, death pass upon all.

    So what would be the atonement for breaking the law of God's.

    Christ Jesus became our atonement, for breaking the law of God's.

    So where humans should have been put to death, Christ Jesus step up in our place. And gave his blood in the place of our blood. For the Atonement of breaking the law of God's.
    Jesus gave his life in the place of your life.
    Jesus died willingly to save you.
    This is why Jesus was necessary.

    How many people can you think of, that would be willingly to die in your place?

    This is what Christ Jesus did willingly. For all humans. All because Jesus loves us that much, to die in our place.
     
    #260 Faithofchristian, Sep 17, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
Loading...