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Why Was Jesus Baptised By John?

A. Ben-Shema

A. Ben-Shema

Active Member
Many Christians believe that Jesus (his 'human' self) was somehow Divine from the very instant of his birth, and remained so throughout his life on Earth. Perhaps they could explain to me why they believe this, and what they believe was the true significance of the Baptism story - i.e. what Spiritual significance and connection was there between John and Jesus? What is the meaning of: "... the Spirit as a dove descending upon him." (Mark 1:10). Did Jesus first experience this Spirit upon Baptism (i.e. 'initiation') from John? Could John actually have been His Spiritual Teacher?

 Do you believe that the subservient part given to John in these stories is the result of a later orthodoxy wanting to hide the fact that he was Jesus' Spiritual Master? John, in fact, was considered a great 'gnostic' Prophet at that time, and had a large following. After his death his disciples formed a religion - the Mandaeans - remnants of which still exists today in parts of Iraq and Iran. Their ancient scriptures, which honour John as the Master, tell a very different story to the Gentile (Roman) version of the NT.

What are your thoughts on this?

Peace & Love :)


 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
John and Jesus were cousins. It pleased God for Jesus to acknowledge the work of John. Jesus sought anointment from John in the tradition of Jewish Kings. John was the son of Zacharias the High Priest of Judaism and empowered to perform those anointments.

Symbology at work.

Regards,
Scott
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Unfortunately, we can only know what we know from the evidence presented. Anything else is fantasy, speculation, or hallucination. The Biblical record is the only record we have of Christ's baptism. In that narrative, John refuses to baptize Jesus, because he knows he is unworthy. In the Biblical narrative, John is clearly not superior to Jesus. Jesus also subjugates himself to an "inferior" which illustrates his teaching that "whoever would be great must be a servant."

Without getting into a broad exegesis of that passage, I'm pretty sure that John was not Jesus' spiritual mentor.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
A. Ben-Shema said:
Many Christians believe that Jesus (his 'human' self) was somehow Divine from the very instant of his birth, and remained so throughout his life on Earth. Perhaps they could explain to me why they believe this, and what they believe was the true significance of the Baptism story - i.e. what Spiritual significance and connection was there between John and Jesus? What is the meaning of: "... the Spirit as a dove descending upon him." (Mark 1:10). Did Jesus first experience this Spirit upon Baptism (i.e. 'initiation') from John? Could John actually have been His Spiritual Teacher?

Do you believe that the subservient part given to John in these stories is the result of a later orthodoxy wanting to hide the fact that he was Jesus' Spiritual Master? John, in fact, was considered a great 'gnostic' Prophet at that time, and had a large following. After his death his disciples formed a religion - the Mandaeans - remnants of which still exists today in parts of Iraq and Iran. Their ancient scriptures, which honour John as the Master, tell a very different story to the Gentile (Roman) version of the NT.

What are your thoughts on this?

Peace & Love :)
Click to expand...
The Bible states that Jesus was baptised in order to fulfill righteousness, whatever that means. That Jesus had things to learn as a man but was fully aware as God is a mystery. Try googling the pecability and the impeccability of Christ and you might find some enlightenment on the subject.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Jesus was baptized by John because Jesus was John's disciple...
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
sojourner said:
What is the basis for that assumption? I've never gotten that out of the gospels...
Click to expand...

The evidence for that conclusion is that Jesus was baptized by John. It's not an assumption...
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
angellous_evangellous said:
The evidence for that conclusion is that Jesus was baptized by John. It's not an assumption...
Click to expand...
Can one not be baptized by someone who is not one's teacher? Did not John refuse to baptize Jesus, because John was unworthy? It seems to me that John said publicly that he was not the "one to come," and pointed to Jesus as being greater than he. That doesn't sound to me like the classic definition of a student/teacher relationship...
The way I read it, the only conclusion we can draw is that John only agreed to baptize Jesus, because Jesus instructed him to.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
sojourner said:
Can one not be baptized by someone who is not one's teacher?
Click to expand...

Nope.

Did not John refuse to baptize Jesus, because John was unworthy? It seems to me that John said publicly that he was not the "one to come," and pointed to Jesus as being greater than he. That doesn't sound to me like the classic definition of a student/teacher relationship...
Click to expand...

It was a later addition to the story.
 
R

Random

Well-Known Member
I believe that Jesus was an Ishmaelite by birth who, upon return from his travels around the age of 29, was baptised into Judaism by John. That was the purpose of Baptism in those times: conversion to the religion of Yahweh. It was an Essene ritual which had no continuity in the Pharisee or Sadducee traditions. And John was an Essene...
 
R

Random

Well-Known Member
Mikvah is ritual bathing, not one and the same with Baptism which has...other roots.

In any case, I can see you're determined to shoot the messenger, Midnightblue. Luckily I've learnt to dodge bullets pretty well these past few years...

No offence, but how I have come to believe what I believe wouldn't mean very much to you.

Peace and blessings,

Random/Conor
 
A. Ben-Shema

A. Ben-Shema

Active Member
Booko said:
You appear to be laboring under an assumption that the person you're responding to is a Gentile and/or Christian.
Click to expand...

Quite wrong. I was referring to the originators of the NT - which is a Gentile (Greek) Christian compilation.

Peace & Love :)
 
A. Ben-Shema

A. Ben-Shema

Active Member
sandy whitelinger said:
The Bible states that Jesus was baptised in order to fulfill righteousness, whatever that means. That Jesus had things to learn as a man but was fully aware as God is a mystery. Try googling the pecability and the impeccability of Christ and you might find some enlightenment on the subject.
Click to expand...

The only place to find genuine Spiritual Enlightenment is WITHIN.

Peace & Love :)

 
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