Why valuing monotheism puzzles me.

[LuisDantas]

Associate as in someone equal to you. That's what it means.

How could a human being even understand a distinction between two hypothetically real and equal Gods?

 

[WalterTrull]

As an aside, what would make a religion major? How does a creed qualify for that adjective?

Ahh, "major" was just a slip of the mouse. Don't quite know what you mean by creed. Looked it up and am still not sure where you're going.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I wish I knew how and how much they emphatize the teaching of monotheism. I have very little clue.

I wish I had a more nuanced understanding of it. I was at an interfaith gathering sponsored by a group called the Children of Abraham Coalition which included a speaker from the Sikh religion as a respected friend. He gave a passionate speech on monotheism, insisting that bigotry is desecration. I rather liked the guy.

 

[LuisDantas]

I wish I had a more nuanced understanding of it. I was at an interfaith gathering sponsored by a group called the Children of Abraham Coalition which included a speaker from the Sikh religion as a respected friend. He gave a passionate speech on monotheism, insisting that bigotry is desecration. I rather liked the guy.

Do you remember if his argument roughly followed the idea that all people arise from the same Creation and are therefore equally deserving?

 

[Apologes]

The reason why monotheistic religions in general stress that God is one is because they firmly believe it to be the case, not because they have some axe to grind with the idea of polytheism (even if there is such a thing, the former remains the primary cause).

As for Islam and certain unitarian Christian sects, they don't reject the doctrine of trinity because it teaches polytheism (at least the more sensible adherents of said religions don't) but because they believe it implies it even if unintentionally. As far as cold dogma goes, your sentiment that the Trinity somehow weakens monotheism (in contrast to strong monotheism found in Islam) is misguided.

Likewise, you misunderstood the muslim charge of Shirk as the muslim claims that God can have no equals, not that God can have no associations with anyone as clearly their prophet would be associated with God. Of course, this association doesn't imply equal standing.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Here is what most people do not understand. Sam Jones is married to Sue Jones and they have a son Billy Jones. Thes are thre separate people but they make up one family. There is only one God but that does not mean there cannot be more than one "person" making up that one God. There is NO "person" named God. There is the Father and the son and the holy spirit. Many people use the name G"od" tp mean the father but that is wrong. There is no reason one God cannot have several parts just like one family has several parts.

 

[WalterTrull]

I wish I had a more nuanced understanding of it

Yeah, there are several RFers I wish were a little more nuanced.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Do you remember if his argument roughly followed the idea that all people arise from the same Creation and are therefore equally deserving?

I hesitate to speak for him, but my sense was that it went beyond this to an assertion that all people are part of the same Oneness.

 

[siti]

...monotheism must be man-made. Even if there is truly a One True God, it is only natural for people to conceive and perceive it in various forms.

It is a man-made philosophy based on defining God as maximally good, powerful, wise etc. etc. Suppose you had a magic teapot that could produce an endless supply of any kind of tea you liked without ever running out...why would you need more than one? God is a magic teapot!

How could a human being even understand a distinction between two hypothetically real and equal Gods?

Or two magic teapots? Could you tell which one your tea really came from?

 

[osgart]

All those eternal motives vs. Nihilism?

Some say faith produces community, altruism and empathy while a lack of any faith leads to only material concerns, and a life only concerned with pleasure.

I say you are who you are regardless of faith or no faith.

 

[sun rise]

How could a human being even understand a distinction between two hypothetically real and equal Gods?

Extend that a bit and we have the blind men and the elephant of the nature of the divine.

 

[Vinayaka]

I wish I knew how and how much they emphatize the teaching of monotheism. I have very little clue.

Very tolerant people, in general. We get some coming to our temple. In practice, they retain many Hindu traits, but yes in theory it's very monotheistic. Interestingly the Adi Granth is treated like a Hindu murthy.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It also puzzles me someone can be puzzled by something so simple.....

"At the same time, Islaam is strictly monotheistic to the point that I truly can't understand what it proposes. It goes beyond monotheism proper towards an insistence that "God has no partners / no associates".

In pre-Islamic Arabia, paganism was a tribalistic belief system that consist of a pantheon, and as such, some Islamic scholars believe that as the children of Abraham that being the Arabs had went back on their ancient belief which was the monotheism that Ishmael had practiced. from a philosophical position often times polytheism insinuates the belief that gods acted independently but each deity in a pantheon needed one another. It makes deities limited but not necessarily powerless. For the Abrahamic faith theologically it would contradict the commandment "thou shalt have no deities before me" considering God is the only one in the universe. The idea, of sharing power would appear to be an affront to God's power who is the maker of all things.

"why should anyone worry about a God that does not want to associate with anyone?"

(May God forgive me for this analogy)

I often times come up with plans to stabilize a patient or let's just say, de-escalate a situation and often times I remain quiet and not take credit but those present who see me at work, often times give other people credit despite seeing me do the exact thing that 100% solved the situation. Whether or not these people personally have a gripe against me is unimportant but what is important is the acknowledgement that I had deserve some credit even if none at all. However I accept this is the nature of the situation that some people just wont acknowledge those who go above and beyond. I think with God it is important to acknowledge at least in prayer that subordinate creatures like humans, give praise to the very deity that provides all the necessary things to sustain one's life, this is the essential worship of every Abrahamic follower. To be cognizant that God, not man, gives sustenance. The plant that yields food does not grow simply because man plants and waters, it grows because of a complex process, a process God has created.


"One reason why I doubt it is because that would be, well, rather weird. Whatever roles and attributes a true and existing deity could have or lack, it just feel odd to me that there are people who actually believe that they can tell true deities from false."

This is a new subject you are entering than simply asking about the notion of strict monotheism.


"Surely the Christian/Muslim God, which is explicitly transcendental to this very Universe and presumed by both doctrines to be loving and caring, would have the means to adjust its voice and stance for the best effect depending on the interlocutor and the circunstances. Quite a few human counselors and advisers of several kinds do exactly that. How could that be beyond a true (and only true) God?"

Seems like you're asking for several things in one, can you condense the rest of your concerns in one or two sentences?

 

[Vinayaka]

Monotheism doesn't puzzle me personally. People are free to believe what they have been led to believe. We're all different after all. What does puzzle me is when any belief is adamantly 'I'm right and you're wrong." That, to me, is puzzling. It projects you entire personage onto 7 billion other people. It's as puzzling as thinking because you're desiring a mango, that everyone else either is, of, if not, they certainly should be. In short, it's very illogical.

 

[LuisDantas]

Extend that a bit and we have the blind men and the elephant of the nature of the divine.

Let me put it in another way.

By a human perspective, are two equal deities even truly two?

How could one even tell?

 

[LuisDantas]

Very tolerant people, in general. We get some coming to our temple. In practice, they retain many Hindu traits, but yes in theory it's very monotheistic. Interestingly the Adi Granth is treated like a Hindu murthy.

I grew rather fond of the Sikh ever since I learned of the Langar practice right here on RF.

But how they relate to their own monotheism is very much an unknown to me.

 

[Vinayaka]

I grew rather fond of the Sikh ever since I learned of the Langar practice right here on RF.

But how they relate to their own monotheism is very much an unknown to me.

I've never actually engaged one on that either, despite many opportunities. I'm 10 minutes away from 2 large Gurdwaras.

 

[LuisDantas]

It also puzzles me someone can be puzzled by something so simple.....

If you say so.

Some of us are not ashamed to admit that it can be hard to understand others, though.

"At the same time, Islaam is strictly monotheistic to the point that I truly can't understand what it proposes. It goes beyond monotheism proper towards an insistence that "God has no partners / no associates".

In pre-Islamic Arabia, paganism was a tribalistic belief system that consist of a pantheon, and as such, some Islamic scholars believe that as the children of Abraham that being the Arabs had went back on their ancient belief which was the monotheism that Ishmael had practiced. from a philosophical position often times polytheism insinuates the belief that gods acted independently but each deity in a pantheon needed one another. It makes deities limited but not necessarily powerless. For the Abrahamic faith theologically it would contradict the commandment "thou shalt have no deities before me" considering God is the only one in the universe. The idea, of sharing power would appear to be an affront to God's power who is the maker of all things.

Sounds like a direct rejection of polytheism out of... aesthetical preference, I must assume.

It is fair to notice that the commandment actually indicates that monotheism is not strictly speaking accurate, or at least that its accuracy can't be easily demonstrated. Why would worship of other deities be forbidden if it were not possible in a practical sense?

"why should anyone worry about a God that does not want to associate with anyone?"

(May God forgive me for this analogy)

I often times come up with plans to stabilize a patient or let's just say, de-escalate a situation and often times I remain quiet and not take credit but those present who see me at work, often times give other people credit despite seeing me do the exact thing that 100% solved the situation. Whether or not these people personally have a gripe against me is unimportant but what is important is the acknowledgement that I had deserve some credit even if none at all. However I accept this is the nature of the situation that some people just wont acknowledge those who go above and beyond. I think with God it is important to acknowledge at least in prayer that subordinate creatures like humans, give praise to the very deity that provides all the necessary things to sustain one's life, this is the essential worship of every Abrahamic follower. To be cognizant that God, not man, gives sustenance. The plant that yields food does not grow simply because man plants and waters, it grows because of a complex process, a process God has created.

Sorry, I am not following. This seems to be a statement of faith in an Abrahamic-styled God, to be sure. But it does not really clarify my question.

"One reason why I doubt it is because that would be, well, rather weird. Whatever roles and attributes a true and existing deity could have or lack, it just feel odd to me that there are people who actually believe that they can tell true deities from false."

This is a new subject you are entering than simply asking about the notion of strict monotheism.

It may be because monotheism proper does not puzzle me, but considering it a big deal is what surprises me.

Monotheism, like any other form of theism, is a matter of personal inclination and aesthetical preference. It is inherently beyond any considerations of "truth". Yet some of the most motivated monotheistc doctrines insist that it is a very important thing. Why? How could that even hypothetically be very important?

That is what I can't understand, and perhaps never will.

"Surely the Christian/Muslim God, which is explicitly transcendental to this very Universe and presumed by both doctrines to be loving and caring, would have the means to adjust its voice and stance for the best effect depending on the interlocutor and the circunstances. Quite a few human counselors and advisers of several kinds do exactly that. How could that be beyond a true (and only true) God?"

Seems like you're asking for several things in one, can you condense the rest of your concerns in one or two sentences?

What I said above, then: "How could monotheism ever be a very significant part of any doctrine, as opposed to a simple preference of form and language?"

 

[LuisDantas]

I've never actually engaged one on that either, despite many opportunities. I'm 10 minutes away from 2 large Gurdwaras.

Somehow that does not surprise me. The Sikhs seem to be very practical-minded.

I wish I had the ease of access that you have. They certainly intrigue me.

 

[LuisDantas]

As far as cold dogma goes, your sentiment that the Trinity somehow weakens monotheism (in contrast to strong monotheism found in Islam) is misguided.

Me?

No, I don't think that Trinitarianism weakens monotheism at all.

If anything, I think that it is a mistake to consider the Trinity a form of polytheism.

Likewise, you misunderstood the muslim charge of Shirk as the muslim claims that God can have no equals, not that God can have no associations with anyone as clearly their prophet would be associated with God. Of course, this association doesn't imply equal standing.

I am not sure that it is possible to actually understand the concept of Shirk logically.