Why there is NO torment for the dead.....

[Hockeycowboy]

...at least, according to the Bible:

Ecclesiastes 9:5. The dead can't feel pain if the dead are "aware of nothing." (This agrees with Psalms 146:3-4. And John 11:11-14. And Acts of the Apostles 7:60.) And now we read Romans 6:23...." The wages of sin is death", not torment.

Basically, death is nonexistence. Isn't that bad enough?

How awful, to accuse God of doing something so heinous, for eternity! We as a justice-loving society don't allow people to burn others, even a little. But God does it? Forever?!

It's amazing, how such a teaching got so popular, when the Bible says differently! It's almost as if someone who hates God, has been controlling what Christendom teaches about it!

Someone may ask, "Doesn't the Bible mention the 'Lake of Fire'?" Yes, but if you'll notice respecting it, Revelation 20:13-14 states "death is hurled into" it. Is death something that can be burned? No. But in the future, it will be gone forever, it will "be no more"! (Revelation 21:3-4) Forever! Never coming back!

So we can tell, in this instance by what it says here regarding death, fire has a symbolic meaning: complete and everlasting destruction, never coming back!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...at least, according to the Bible:
Ecclesiastes 9:5. The dead can't feel pain if the dead are "aware of nothing." (This agrees with Psalms 146:3-4. And John 11:11-14. And Acts of the Apostles 7:60.) And now we read Romans 6:23...." The wages of sin is death", not torment.
Basically, death is nonexistence. Isn't that bad enough?
How awful, to accuse God of doing something so heinous, for eternity! We as a justice-loving society don't allow people to burn others, even a little. But God does it? Forever?!
It's amazing, how such a teaching got so popular, when the Bible says differently! It's almost as if someone who hates God, has been controlling what Christendom teaches about it!
Someone may ask, "Doesn't the Bible mention the 'Lake of Fire'?" Yes, but if you'll notice respecting it, Revelation 20:13-14 states "death is hurled into" it. Is death something that can be burned? No. But in the future, it will be gone forever, it will "be no more"! (Revelation 21:3-4) Forever! Never coming back!

.... and I notice Romans 6:7 mentions that the dead are freed or acquitted from their sins.
So, since the wages, or price tag, of sin is: death, and Not death-plus...., then if one is acquitted of a crime (sin) can he be tried again for a second time and be punished for it?
Wouldn't that be ' double jeopardy ' ?
Rather, starting with Day One of Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth new books (scrolls) will be opened and in them will be the basis for Judgement on what a person does ' after ' they are resurrected and Not before - Revelation 20:12
That is because the acquitted dead - Romans 6:7 - are pardoned just a a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick. So, except for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 the majority of people will have a resurrection. Some to heaven - Revelation 20:6, but the majority of people will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth during Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth when ' enemy death ' will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 22:2

 

[Skwim]

...at least, according to the Bible:

Ecclesiastes 9:5. The dead can't feel pain if the dead are "aware of nothing." (This agrees with Psalms 146:3-4. And John 11:11-14. And Acts of the Apostles 7:60.) And now we read Romans 6:23...." The wages of sin is death", not torment.

Basically, death is nonexistence. Isn't that bad enough?

How awful, to accuse God of doing something so heinous, for eternity! We as a justice-loving society don't allow people to burn others, even a little. But God does it? Forever?!

It's amazing, how such a teaching got so popular, when the Bible says differently! It's almost as if someone who hates God, has been controlling what Christendom teaches about it!

Someone may ask, "Doesn't the Bible mention the 'Lake of Fire'?" Yes, but if you'll notice respecting it, Revelation 20:13-14 states "death is hurled into" it. Is death something that can be burned? No. But in the future, it will be gone forever, it will "be no more"! (Revelation 21:3-4) Forever! Never coming back!

So we can tell, in this instance by what it says here regarding death, fire has a symbolic meaning: complete and everlasting destruction, never coming back!

No torment in hell, eh. In light of other verses in the Bible it looks like you've been doing a lot of cherry picking. Just consider:

Matthew 25:
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2 Thessalonians 1:
8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
​

Punishment being defined as

2 a : suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution
...b : penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure
​

can easily be torment. Torment being defined as

: extreme physical or mental pain
: something that causes extreme physical or mental pain


Matthew 13:
42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
​

Think people who weep and gnash their teeth in a blazing furnace aren't in torment? Of course they are.

Nope, god clearly does do "something so heinous." and everlasting no less. Nice guy? Hardly.



.

 

[David1967]

...at least, according to the Bible:

Ecclesiastes 9:5. The dead can't feel pain if the dead are "aware of nothing." (This agrees with Psalms 146:3-4. And John 11:11-14. And Acts of the Apostles 7:60.) And now we read Romans 6:23...." The wages of sin is death", not torment.

Basically, death is nonexistence. Isn't that bad enough?

How awful, to accuse God of doing something so heinous, for eternity! We as a justice-loving society don't allow people to burn others, even a little. But God does it? Forever?!

It's amazing, how such a teaching got so popular, when the Bible says differently! It's almost as if someone who hates God, has been controlling what Christendom teaches about it!

Someone may ask, "Doesn't the Bible mention the 'Lake of Fire'?" Yes, but if you'll notice respecting it, Revelation 20:13-14 states "death is hurled into" it. Is death something that can be burned? No. But in the future, it will be gone forever, it will "be no more"! (Revelation 21:3-4) Forever! Never coming back!

So we can tell, in this instance by what it says here regarding death, fire has a symbolic meaning: complete and everlasting destruction, never coming back!

I've said it before and will repeat it again. I hope you guys are right about the Hell thing.

 

[Burl]

Given the Psalm link is about Jehovah, and that JW's have license to lie, we might link Jehovah to 'The Father of Lies' and discount the whole thing.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No torment in hell, eh. In light of other verses in the Bible it looks like you've been doing a lot of cherry picking. Just consider:

Matthew 25:
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2 Thessalonians 1:
8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
​

Punishment being defined as

2 a : suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution
...b : penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure
​

can easily be torment. Torment being defined as

: extreme physical or mental pain
: something that causes extreme physical or mental pain


Matthew 13:
42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
​

Think people who weep and gnash their teeth in a blazing furnace aren't in torment? Of course they are.

Nope, god clearly does do "something so heinous." and everlasting no less. Nice guy? Hardly.



.

You yourself quoted it: " punished with everlasting destruction."

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Given the Psalm link is about Jehovah, and that JW's have license to lie, we might link Jehovah to 'The Father of Lies' and discount the whole thing.

"License to lie"? You can say anything. Prove it (regarding this topic.)

 

[Deeje]

Given the Psalm link is about Jehovah, and that JW's have license to lie, we might link Jehovah to 'The Father of Lies' and discount the whole thing.

Who told you that? Do you blindly believe everything you read on the internet? Seriously....

 

[Burl]

Given the Psalm link is about Jehovah, and that JW's have license to lie, we might link Jehovah to 'The Father of Lies' and discount the whole thing.

"License to lie"? You can say anything. Prove it (regarding this topic

"The Society actually teaches Jehovah's Witnesses to cover-up or lie about certain facts. They call this tactic -- Theocratic War Strategy."
https://www.google.com/#q=lying+jehovah+witness

 

[Thief]

...at least, according to the Bible:

Ecclesiastes 9:5. The dead can't feel pain if the dead are "aware of nothing." (This agrees with Psalms 146:3-4. And John 11:11-14. And Acts of the Apostles 7:60.) And now we read Romans 6:23...." The wages of sin is death", not torment.

Basically, death is nonexistence. Isn't that bad enough?

How awful, to accuse God of doing something so heinous, for eternity! We as a justice-loving society don't allow people to burn others, even a little. But God does it? Forever?!

It's amazing, how such a teaching got so popular, when the Bible says differently! It's almost as if someone who hates God, has been controlling what Christendom teaches about it!

Someone may ask, "Doesn't the Bible mention the 'Lake of Fire'?" Yes, but if you'll notice respecting it, Revelation 20:13-14 states "death is hurled into" it. Is death something that can be burned? No. But in the future, it will be gone forever, it will "be no more"! (Revelation 21:3-4) Forever! Never coming back!

So we can tell, in this instance by what it says here regarding death, fire has a symbolic meaning: complete and everlasting destruction, never coming back!

there is a parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man

of course it leans to life after death
and the torment (though dealt in terms of flesh).....is of spirit

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Who told you that? Do you blindly believe everything you read on the internet? Seriously....

*** it-2 p. 244 Lie ***
The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person.

*** it-2 p. 245 Lie ***
While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.

How about from your own literature? This is just giving JW's a license to lie, but God said, "Thou shalt "NOT" lie".

 

[Hockeycowboy]

"The Society actually teaches Jehovah's Witnesses to cover-up or lie about certain facts. They call this tactic -- Theocratic War Strategy."
https://www.google.com/#q=lying+jehovah+witness

Which has nothing to do with this topic. Please, no OT stuff.

 

[Skwim]

You yourself quoted it: " punished with everlasting destruction."

My mistake, I quoted the New International Version when I meant to quote The Living Bible:

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
"8 bringing judgment on those who do not wish to know God and who refuse to accept his plan to save them through our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 They will be punished in everlasting hell, forever separated from the Lord, never to see the glory of his power.
​

Besides, you still have Matthew 25:46 and Matthew 13:42 to deal with.

.

.​

 

[Deeje]

How about from your own literature? This is just giving JW's a license to lie, but God said, "Thou shalt "NOT" lie".

LOL...does anyone sense an obsession here?

Matt 26:59-63)
"Now the chief priests and the entire Sanʹhe·drin were looking for false testimony against Jesus in order to put him to death. 60 But they found none, although many false witnesses came forward. Later two came forward 61 and said: “This man said, ‘I am able to throw down the temple of God and build it up in three days.’” 62 With that the high priest stood up and said to him: “Do you say nothing in reply? What is it these men are testifying against you?” 63 But Jesus kept silent."

And as it says in Prov 3:7: There is "A time to be silent and a time to speak". This is certainly not a license to tell lies but simply discerning if it is a time to speak, or a time to remain silent even as Jesus did. (Isa 53:7)

 

[Burl]

...at least, according to the Bible:

"...he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much." Luke 16:10 which has everything to do with this topic.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

"...he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in

"...he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much." Luke 16:10 which has everything to do with this topic.

Then, show the correlation; prove the lie.

 

[Burl]

prove the lie.

It's no small feat, but I'm working on it: http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/carpe-diem.188765/

 

[moorea944]

...at least, according to the Bible:

Ecclesiastes 9:5. The dead can't feel pain if the dead are "aware of nothing." (This agrees with Psalms 146:3-4. And John 11:11-14. And Acts of the Apostles 7:60.) And now we read Romans 6:23...." The wages of sin is death", not torment.

Basically, death is nonexistence. Isn't that bad enough?

How awful, to accuse God of doing something so heinous, for eternity! We as a justice-loving society don't allow people to burn others, even a little. But God does it? Forever?!

It's amazing, how such a teaching got so popular, when the Bible says differently! It's almost as if someone who hates God, has been controlling what Christendom teaches about it!

Someone may ask, "Doesn't the Bible mention the 'Lake of Fire'?" Yes, but if you'll notice respecting it, Revelation 20:13-14 states "death is hurled into" it. Is death something that can be burned? No. But in the future, it will be gone forever, it will "be no more"! (Revelation 21:3-4) Forever! Never coming back!

So we can tell, in this instance by what it says here regarding death, fire has a symbolic meaning: complete and everlasting destruction, never coming back!

Wow, great post!! I totally agree with you on that one!! Like I've always said, "Main Stream" Christianity is so different from the org. teachings of Christ and the Apostles....

 

[Hockeycowboy]

*** it-2 p. 244 Lie ***
The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person.

*** it-2 p. 245 Lie ***
While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.

How about from your own literature? This is just giving JW's a license to lie, but God said, "Thou shalt "NOT" lie".

Just curious then.... Why haven't you told the brother studying the Bible with you about your obvious animosity toward Jehovah's organization? Is that honest?



Please, do not go OT (Off Topic) anymore.

 

[David1967]

Wow, great post!! I totally agree with you on that one!! Like I've always said, "Main Stream" Christianity is so different from the org. teachings of Christ and the Apostles....

I've often wondered if we could go back in time and sit in on one of the original apostles study meetings if it would at all resemble modern Christianity or any of its denominations. I think we may all be surprised.