1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Why the theory of evolution is so important

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Wild Fox, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. Seve

    Seve Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    75
    Ratings:
    +5
    Religion:
    Christian
    I have No argument with factual Science. I do have problems with the false assumption that we evolved our Human intelligence from mindless nature. It takes more faith to believe that than it does to accept God's Truth, which tells us that we inherited our Human Intelligence from Adam, the first Human.

    The fact that in my postings on the other thread that I started "Discussing Genesis 1&2 - The Beginning" it deals mostly recents Scientific Discoveries, History and Statistical Facts that we now being discovered and only understand but have been recorded in our Scripture even before a single scientist is ever born into this "Planet of Apes".

    Next time, do your DD before making false statement (i.e. above) and jumping to your gun based on assumption.

     
  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    21,316
    Ratings:
    +11,718
    Religion:
    Atheist
    You still don't seem to understand that the burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate any real difference between human intelligence and that of other animals. Yes, we are brighter. That is about it.
     
  3. Seve

    Seve Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    75
    Ratings:
    +5
    Religion:
    Christian
    Sorry, but seemingly, you must have a very short memory. Read my lips...

    The burden of proof is yours
    since, you are one of the many Evols claiming on this thread that Human evolved from Apes ..... WITHOUT any evidence to present on HOW and WHEN we evolved this Human Intelligence from this common ancestor of Apes.

    NONE... NADA...ZERO...
     
    #323 Seve, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  4. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    983
    Ratings:
    +682
    Religion:
    Atheist


    Human intelligence didn't evolve "from mindless nature".
    It evolved from more primitive primate intelligence.

    Common ancestry of species is a genetic fact. I thought you were fine with factual science?

    No, it doesn't take more faith to accept scientific facts as opposed to accepting superstitious bronze age myths :rolleyes:

    I don't know what thread you speak of, but I can assure you that there aren't any historical, statistical or what-have you facts and discoveries which do not support evolution and which support a superstitious bronze age creation myth instead....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    983
    Ratings:
    +682
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Humans and the other great apes sharing primate ancestors, is a genetic fact.

    No matter how much you deny it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,720
    Ratings:
    +193
    Religion:
    Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church of Christ)
    The picture of 2 SUV in the total wreck does not speak of my argument that

    So how did Alexander Oparin and John Haldane conclude - "It all started at the primordial soup. It started there!"?

    It happened gazillion of years in the past.
    Even before their mama were born.
    How did they possibly do it?
    They time traveled? No they couldn't do that.
    Maybe they....

    **mod edit**
    Or consulted a medium

    After all, science rhymes with séance
     
    #326 MJFlores, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2019
  7. Seve

    Seve Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    75
    Ratings:
    +5
    Religion:
    Christian
    Your argumentation is fallacious and distorted. Who told you that I am denying this so called half-truth with regards to the origin of genetic facts in humans that the you brought up... does the word "CONTAMINATION" make sense to you?

    For your additional learning..... read my quote below for your additional knowledge... and argue my recorded position and NOT based it on your cut-and-paste assumption.

    ************************************************************************************************

    >>>>>>> Dear Subduction Zone,

    Why don't you just TRY to REFUTE what I have brought forth to you directly, instead of whining about it all day long. Is it because you have no answer or rebuttal to come back to me... contrary to what I have posted??? Also, please explain to us the Magical Evolution Process that you are so eagerly defending and ready to die for. Thanks

    As I have said before, Ape/monkey societies are Not Human Civilizations. Some Evols would have us believe that we ARE Apes. We are the descendants of Adam and the sons of God.

    The sons of God (Prehistoric Man) never wrote a book, nor built a city. Humans, Adam, was made on the 3rd Day and the sons of God were created from the water on the 5th Day. Pre-Noah Humans were from Adam, and the sons of God are referred to by Evols, as Caveman.

    The reason Humans have the DNA and ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes is because today's Humans ARE the children of Noah's descendants and the prehistoric people who were already here and had been for Millions of years BEFORE Noah arrived.

    That is WHY we have the Human intelligence which ONLY Adam and God had, Gen 3:22 but we also contain the DNA and ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes within our Human bloodstreams.
    This does NOT mean that we evolved from them but that our Human blood was contaminated by them. It cost Humans 90% of our lifetimes because of this.

    The problem with the False ToE is that it does NOT know that Humans came to this Earth in an Ark. It's because they have rejected God's Truth and now they are stuck with their incomplete view, because they have been force teaching it to our children for more than 50 years. It's against the Constitution to teach one's UnSupported "beliefs" to our children in the Public Schools. God

    Don't look for Science to recognize this event since it absolutely DESTROYS the idea that we magically evolved from Apes, because there is NO evidence of How and When prehistoric people became Human. In order to believe such foolishness, you MUST accept the False idea that Humans Magically changed from animal to Human intelligence.

    That is the FALSE Religion (belief) that is being forced upon our children in the Public Schools. With NO evidence, it's nothing more than a False Religion and totally UnConstitutional.


    Don't believe me? Then produce evidence of How and When prehistoric people changed from animal to Human intelligence.

    There is NONE. I will wait for you to post just ONE piece of evidence which shows this, but I won't hold my breath. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    ***********************************************************************************************
     
    #327 Seve, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  8. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    983
    Ratings:
    +682
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It shows that you don't need to observe things in order to be able to know that they occured.

    Events of the past, leave evidence behind that you can investigate in the present.

    It really is that simple.

    By investigating data in the present.


    No. Religious myths are what comes out of "dreams" and "visions" and "revelations".
    Science is done based on data and evidence.

    I don't understand what you try to accomplish with saying such idiotic things.
    The only thing you actually accomplish, is that less and less people take you seriously.

    I for one, don't think you're sincere or honest at all.
    You are not having an honest adult conversation.

    This sounds more like playground arguments then anything else.

    I suggest you man up and stop being such a child.
     
    #328 TagliatelliMonster, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  9. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    983
    Ratings:
    +682
    Religion:
    Atheist
    No. It's a genetic fact, not an argument.

    It's demonstrated through genetic analysis and phylogenies, and supported by the fossil record, comparative anatomy, biogeography,...

    All these things are independent lines of evidence that converge on the same answer of common ancestry. There's no data that contradicts it. Anywhere.

    And bronze age myth, isn't data.

    No. It also doesn't make sense in genetics. If humans had "alien" DNA, then it would show in the genetic record. But it doesn't. Because there is no such DNA. Our DNA is fully in line with the idea that we evolved from a common ancestor with the other great apes.

    1. there isn't a single scientific theory that "i would die for"

    2. there's nothing magical about the natural process of evolution

    3. as for explaining it: mutate, survive, reproduce, repeat. in a nutshell

    4. if you want more detailed explanation, you are free to go buy a biology textbook and study. Don't expect a college level biology course in forum post form.

    We are apes, just like we are mammals.

    It's impossible to come up with a definition of "ape" that includes all apes, but excludes humans without arbitrarily adding "....but not humans".

    In the exact same way, you can't define "mammal" to include all mammals but exclude humans.

    In short: we have all properties that makes an ape an "ape". Just like we have all properties that makes a mammal a "mammal".

    According to your religious dogma.
    Not according to the evidence of reality.

    When religious dogma conflicts with evidence of reality - it's not reality that is incorrect.


    And the "alien" DNA of Noah and his children simply vanished from existance?

    This is quite a claim you are making.

    How about some evidence?
    Please show us all what genes are "alien" and how you determined that.



    More religious assertions without evidence.



    The Ark was a spaceship? So where did it come from? Mars? Or somewhere in another solar system? Could it fly at light speed?

    So, did Noah build this space ship? How come all that technology was lost?
    Was it build from wood? :rolleyes:

    No, it's because they go by th evidence of reality instead of bronze age myths.


    Indeed. That's why they are taught biology and not the bible in science classes.


    Evolution is not a "magical" process. It's very natural and inevitably happens.


    Phylogenetic tree - Wikipedia


    Here's a phylogenetic tree.
    It's build up by an automated process based on fully sequenced genomes.
    What the process does, is nothing more or less then blindly plotting DNA matches on a graph.

    If evolution / common ancestry of species is correct, then the resulting graph will be a nested hierarchy (like a family tree).

    Looking at the graph, it clearly is a nested hierarchy.

    Humans fit in this hierarchy like any other creature.

    Now it's your turn.
    Demonstrate with genetic evidence that humans posess a large portion of DNA that is "not of this world". This is something you necessarily will have to do, to support your claim that Noah came from another planet and that humans are his descendents.

    But you won't, will you?

    Instead, you're going to quote the bible again.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Seve

    Seve Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2019
    Messages:
    75
    Ratings:
    +5
    Religion:
    Christian

    No need for a spaceship since Noah' Ark did NOT come from another galaxy.

    Read below... for your additional learning:

    Quote : >>>>In order to understand the Noah's Great Flood, one must understand the following:

    Adam's world was FLAT and much smaller than our present world. It's highest point is only about 22 1/2 feet above sea level, Gen 7:20 while our earth’ highest elevation is some 29k ft. above sea level in comparison. Their entire Earth had only 4 Rivers while the present World has thousands of Rivers all over the face of the earth, indicating it was much much smaller than our Earth.

    Adam’s firmament of heaven or world was placed in the vicinity beneath the body of waters in Lake Van, Turkey. It was in a completely enclosed Biosphere - protecting Adam's world from waters below and above it - like an incubator of Humanity.

    Here are some model images of Ancient Hebrew Perspective of Flat Earth - simili- for reference only - Adam's firmament of heaven with their own sun and moon - surrounded by waters below and above it - see link below....

    Ancient Hebrew Cosmology

    Adam’s world was contained beneath the surface of Lake Van, Turkey were it was placed in the beginning during the making and incorporating of our worlds.

    During the great flood, Noah’ Ark was above the highest mountains of Adam's world (22 1/2 ft.). The firmament, in which Adam's Earth was contained -- end up floating in Lake Van, Turkey, the largest Lake in Turkey. It's in the mountains of Ararat and is some 75 miles wide.

    We know this because In the New Testament, we were told that their heaven and earth.... “ Whereby that the world THEN WAS -- standing out of the water and in the water -- being overflowed with water, perished (Greek- totally destroyed) 2Pet 3:5-6

    The Ark which was covered, floated out the top of Adam's firmament into the largest Lake in the area... when the windows of their heaven opened and the flood gates of waters rushes in the firmament,.... as the firmament sank and released the Ark into our world , thus, Adam’s world was totally destroyed / dissolved in their own Global Flood.

    If it sounds like Atlantis, so be it.

    This explains a way for a 450 foot Ark to be above the highest mountains of Adam's world (22 1/2 ft) ref. Gen 7:20 ...AND....in the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th day after the flood began (Gen 8:4). <<<<<< End of Quote

    ***************************************************************************************************

    I will suggest that you go to my thread in Biblical Debate Category - "Discussing Genesis 1&2 The Beginning" .... for your learning and further basis of legitimate argument.




     
    #330 Seve, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  11. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,459
    Ratings:
    +153
    Religion:
    biblical believer
    In response to post #338, by TagliatelliMonster.

    As you seem to believe that mankind evolved within the bodies of our animal ancestors, then you must accept that 'The Son of Man' who sits in the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation, is currently developing within the body of mankind,according to our concept of one directional linear time.

    Or perhaps you believe that mankind, who stands on the top rung of the ladder of evolution, is the final page in the book of evolution.
     
    #331 The Anointed, Apr 4, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    21,316
    Ratings:
    +11,718
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Wrong as usual. You are the one that believes in magic and has no evidence. You claimed some unobserved magical change in intelligence between other animals and humans. You need evidence for that claim

    Meanwhile for you to even demand any you first need to show that you understand the concept. I am very sure that you do not even have the first clue as to what is and what is not evidence.
     
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    21,316
    Ratings:
    +11,718
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Nope, no reliable evidence for that either.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    21,316
    Ratings:
    +11,718
    Religion:
    Atheist
    They looked at the evidence. Like most creationists it appears that you do not understand the concept. Would you like to learn?
     
  15. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    983
    Ratings:
    +682
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Ow my, lol

    How about some evidence for these crazy, crazy claims?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    983
    Ratings:
    +682
    Religion:
    Atheist
    First, I don't "believe" evolution. I rather accept it as the best explanation for the available evidence.

    Secondly, that's a really strange way to phrase it. "within the bodies of our animal ancestors" - what does that even mean?

    I must accept, what-now?
    I'm sorry, I really don't have a clue what exactly you are saying here.
    What "son of man"? What throne? What is developing "withint the body of mankind" and what does that mean?

    1. evolution is not a ladder; we are not "more evolved" then microbes, ants, crocks or chimps.

    2. "the final page of the book of evolution" would be the day that all life goes extinct. As long as life exists, it will be evolving. It's what life inevitably does. It's the only possible result of an environment in which systems are reproducing with variation and are competing over limited resources. It's inevitable.
     
  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    10,251
    Ratings:
    +9,606
    Religion:
    Non-theist


    Do they understand our laws? No. Do they have rules that they tend to follow? Yes, especially social species.

    But I don't consider this to be an essential aspect of human knowledge since I don't consider it to be knowledge at all/

    Sure you can. We can compare the intelligence of other apes to our own. For example, chimps tend to have *much* better short term memory than we have.

    We can, and do, measure when and to what degree the brain regions associated with planning (frontal lobe) and language(Broca's area, for example) exist in other species. These ares have corresponding indentations on the inner skull and can tell us *something* about how and when intelligence grew to that of modern humans.

    What you have is what you *believe* to be "God's word". I would point out that many disagree with that claim and the unreliability of your texts alone puts that conclusion in doubt.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    10,251
    Ratings:
    +9,606
    Religion:
    Non-theist

    Actually, we *are* apes. We are, in fact, a type of great ape.

    I have posted this before and it is my own work:

    1) Are you made of complex cells with internal organelles? If so, you are a eucaryote.

    2) Do your cells have membranes made of lipids rather than walls made from glucosides and are they surrounded by an extracellular matrix composed of collagen and glycoproteins? Then you are an Animal.

    3) During embryo development, does the blastopore (the first opening) become the anus? Then you are a Deuterostome.

    4) Do you have a head, backbone, brain, red blood cells, and kidneys? Then you are a Vertebrate.

    5) Are air-breathing, have hair, three ear bones, sweat glands, the ability to regulate internal temperature and specialized teeth? Then you are a Mammal.

    6) Do you lack an epi-pubic bone and do females like you have a uterus which produces a placenta during pregnancy? Then you are a placental Mammal.

    7) Do you have a collar bone, opposable fingers, a flat nail on fingers and toes, eye sockets made from bone, stereoscopic vision, an enlarged cerebral cortex? Then you are a Primate.

    8) Do you have a narrow nose and downward pointed nostrils, broad rib cage, a fused frontal bone, convoluted cerebral hemispheres, a large brain for his size of mammal, color vision, a lack of tail, and a lack of cheek pouches? Then you are an Ape.

    So, yes, if you are human, then you *are* an ape.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. Audie

    Audie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    9,545
    Ratings:
    +4,442
    Religion:
    None
    Could you identify a scientific fact for us?
    Just one will do.
     
  20. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    8,148
    Ratings:
    +3,340
    Okay, so no. You cannot demonstrate that they even exist in the first place, never mind that they witnessed anything.
     
Loading...