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Featured Why the NT is Historically and Theologically not acceptable for Torath Mosheh Jews

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Ehav4Ever, Mar 14, 2021.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Old Testament has progressive revelation. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

     
  2. Rival

    Rival Ankh, Wedja, Seneb
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    Paul seems to have a really twisted view of Jews here. What Jews were going around claiming to have some kind of advantage over non-Jews in the first place?
     
  3. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    a. This is all very nice for Romans, but we were talking about Revelation. Different books, you see.

    b. I see. This must be some of that "progressive revelation" Christians claim is a thing in the bible. Though Tanach doesn't indicate that a Jew who doesn't keep the commandments is no longer a Jew, comes Paul, who we all know was the wisest, most righteous man of his generation, and teaches us: whoops, here's a secret Hashem never bothered to tell the other Jews!
    Yep, 1200 years or so of delusions.
    Fine, so it's not replacement theology. It just goes entirely against the Tanach.
     
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  4. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    What Paul said about Jewish hypocrisy in the sense of superiority, also applies to Christians. God has no favorites. 6. Study and Exposition of Romans 2:17-29 | Bible.org

     
  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Bible is there to make us wise unto salvation it's not going to tell us everything about everything, it can't, its a limited document. 2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

     
  7. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Paul wasn't talking about Jewish people who don't believe in Jesus, he was talking about the Jewish people who were persecuting followers of Jesus.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 3:15 has progressive revelation, just like Zechariah 14. There's not even room in the Bible to mention everything about everything, it tells us all we need to know. The Old Testament gives a messianic profile instead of giving all the details for the same reason some people say, why doesn't God introduce himself to me? Does the Bible teach that there would be two comings of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

     
  10. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Again, that's nice for Paul. It's still has nothing to do with Tanach, and certainly nothing to do with Revelation. Please don't try to deflect or dodge, and let's get back to Revelation.
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 2:9 never says that Jewish people or Jewish people who don't believe in Jesus are of the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9

    I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

    The apostle John was only talking about Jewish people who persecuted followers of Yeshua. What is the synagogue of Satan in Revelation? | GotQuestions.org

     
  12. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    So you agree with replacement theology, then.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Replacement theology is a myth. God has only had one people-those who live by faith.
     
  14. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Which is exactly what replacement theology is.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Replacement theology over emphasizes the role of the church. What is replacement theology?

     
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  16. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Don't dodge. We can call it Skywalker and GotQuestions's brand of replacement theology. It is what it is.
     
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  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God's covenantal promises to Israel apply to all of Israel, believing and unbelieving. Replacement Theology — Dr. Tim White

     
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  18. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    And yet the Tanach does not say this. So we have your brand of replacement theology, which is that non-Jewish Christians and Jewish apostates to Christianity will form the "new Israel" and the rest of the Jews will be shunned.
     
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  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jewish people don't follow the Old Covenant anymore. There are no laws in Israel that criminalize adultery and not following the Sabbath. Orthodox writer Rabbi Chaim Schimmel wrote in the book Oral Torah “Jews never lived according to the actual words written in the Torah, but according to the traditions of the rabbis.” The new covenant that the Rabbis follow is the rabbinical tradition that they made up themselves. The New Covenant that we follow is grounded in God’s Messiah. Rabbis are human beings like pastors and priests, they are not infallible.
     
  20. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    These two statements are contradictory. I side with the latter, myself.
    The rabbis he's talking about are the sages since the time of Moshe. And Jews have never acted as though they follow the literal words of the Tanach. Nor do you yourself, as we've long established, with your claims of extra-biblical traditions and whatnot.
    So to use this as proof that Jews who don't convert to Christianity don't deserve to be redeemed is pretty weak and meaningless.
     
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